1989 21' Glastron Futura new floor project , new stringers . Fast fix !

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Miami1324, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. Miami1324
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    Miami1324 Junior Member

    My first post here and its almost midnight so its gonna be short. photo (2).JPG

    photo (3).JPG
    I am planning on using 3/4 tongue & groove pressure treated plywood for the stringers and deck. Stringers are getting epoxy resin with 45 degree biaxial cloth sandwiched between 10 oz cloth. Who has the best prices and shipping rates. I bought the West System 105/206 and 10 oz cloth for the deck. So i was thinking of adding some 1700 to that since i found bad stringers too .
     
  2. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    If you dont do the job properly and take your time and think a little you will be doing a repeat in a short time down the track . all surfaces need to be well ground and roughed up . How do you exspect anyone to look at photos and see whats there through all the mess and foam every where !!.and get a reasonable answer of what to do and how to go about it !!. :eek:
     
  3. Miami1324
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    Miami1324 Junior Member

    Absolutely correct . I have her cleqned up now but for some reason i couldnt upload the photos . After today i have 5 days off to work on her . Question . I have 10 oz cloth. Should i drop down to 6 and use the biaxial 45 degree 17oz no mat for the middle layer on the stringers or go with another plan . ??? I have my beffur set up with a grinding disc and also my 8" mud hogger with 36 grit and my mini disc sander . Everything will be sanded good and acetone down for a good bond . Thanks for the reply . Gotta work on those pics .
     
  4. Miami1324
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    Miami1324 Junior Member

    How many ounces of material are required for the new stringers ?
     
  5. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Miami,

    Glastron originally went with the cheapest possible plywood (they special ordered interior glue in a C/D grade) and did absolutely nothing to seal it from moisture. I looked at their factory with my college advisor and was horrified even when I knew virtually nothing. They didn't even paint the edges of the plywood. Glued the typical plastic outdoor carpet straight to the bare plywood.

    Just get some marine ply, put one coat of 6oz cloth on for abrasion resistance and completely coat the back side. Glue on your stiffeners and coat them and you will have something that lasts lots longer than it did before. The stiffness is in the Ply unless you want a really thin ply and laminate both sides with glass.

    Forget everything else. Mat is especially a waste of time and money. Epoxy does not need the typical polyester style laminate.

    Forget about how many Oz's, just don't skimp on the glue joint and then the coating. You should put 2 coats on the stringers and underside of the deck after you have everything fitted in place. If you want glass for the stringers just use 6oz. Since you have 206 try to to do both coats without letting the first one fully cure or wash with an ammonia cleanser and a very light sanding. Don't use your big power tools or you will take off everything that protects the wood.

    Epoxy doesn't require 36 grit roughening of the wood for any reason.

    Be sure to leave limber holes in the stringers so any water can drain to the centerline and out the transom.

    This is really a lot simpler than you are trying to make it.
     
  6. Miami1324
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    Miami1324 Junior Member

    upchurchmr , thanks for the reply. I didnt get ur reply in time. I had to replace every single stringer > They were so rotten and black. I already roughed up the new stringers before i got ur message. Im usin a west system epoxy with 405 flour power to thicken resin for tabbing the stringers. This is my 1st boat repair and it looks like im over kill. I bought some 17 oz biaxial with 8 oz sewn in. I was lookin for no mat attached but the place didnt have that setup. So you are saying i dont need to laminate the stringers ? I went with 3/4 plywood . I see how sticky the epoxy is. I set a brick against a stringer for support and got it in the resin. Next day it broke a chunk off the brick. Stuck to hull. Wow !
    As far as the deck, tried another parts store and they had no 6 oz. -sold me 10 oz. I plan on painting it. What are ur thoughts on the pressure treated plywood. One side is pt. I have some of that been drying out in the sun for 3 weeks.
    Also my foam was such a wreck , im having a hard time wanting to put any back in. Any suggestions ?
     
  7. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Don't use pressure treated wood. The new CA treatment doesn't like epoxy much, so it' will not stick like you'd prefer. Straight yellow lumber or plywood is all you need, well encapsulated so it doesn't rot on you.

    405 is a combination of things, all good for fillets, though you'll also want to toss some silica (406) in the mixtures as well, to control viscosity (prevent it from running or sagging).

    1708 will suck up resin like a sponge (about 300%) and isn't necessary in an epoxy laminate. Mail order is the best way to get good prices and the products you need, unless you live near the shore and have access to industry suppliers.

    You can use a pour in foam to replace the old stuff, or just not use any, sealing up the areas once reserved for foam as buoyancy compartments.
     
  8. Miami1324
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    Miami1324 Junior Member

    Looks like i will be putting some 1708 on ebay or something . I was recommended the 1700 biax but couldnt get it . I did find it mail order if you recommend it . I have definately learned alot in the last month . Costly mistakes .
     
  9. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Miami,

    The first time you use epoxy is a real learning experience, isn't it. Overkill is normal first time. Amazing how little it takes to do a good job.

    PAR knows a lot more than I do.
    But, I also believe you should never use pressure treated with epoxy.
    Mail order is the only way I get glass here in Texas. And it is cheap compared to getting a local supply place to special order it.
    Pour in foam is fine, just don't cut the surface if it over expands. The stuff has connecting bubbles, and if you cut the surface it makes a great sponge, fills up with water and it won't come out. If you do cut it you might be able to coat with epoxy to seal from water - no glass required.
    Foam insulation board (styrofoam) would work. I believe epoxy will not melt it when you glue it in or together to get more thickness. With styrofoam you can shape the surface and it will not suck up water. Not easy to get a smooth surface.

    Good Luck
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Styrofoam is now a generic name for most foams, but if it says Styrofoam, it's not the stuff you want, as it's open cell and absorbs water like I do beer. The big box stores sell sheets of both open and closed cell foam. Get the closed cell stuff. Epoxy doesn't melt any of the usual foams available (no solvents to attack it) so you're safe there and a sealing coat of epoxy is always a good idea. Biax typically comes in three weights, 6, 12 and 17 ounces. You want the 45/45 fiber orientation stuff, regardless of weight.
     
  11. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Par,

    Is biax the current name for plain weave? I have never seen it in 45/45, the cheaper 6oz I see is 0/90.

    I sure would like to see some 45/45 for edges of things (paddles, hatches) and the sides of crossbeams. Could you suggest a specific source?

    When you talk about Styrofoam are you talking about the beaded insulation board at the big box stores? I didn't think that sucked up water. I have some pink board on my garage door (wish it wasn't pink but what can you do) which seems to be closed cell.
     
  12. Miami1324
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    Miami1324 Junior Member

    I asked for the 45 degree biax in a 17 oz with no mat . All he had was w/mat . I figured it would suck up more resin but wasnt thinkin a whole lot more . I read to stay away from the early style 1708 as the mat is glued to the biax and saw a post claiming to be from the manufacture that said epoxy does not completely break down their glue . So more resin there and wound up with 10 oz cloth for the deck when i sent the wife for 6 . She called me cuz the guy was tryin to sell her a 38 oz . I didnt know they make it that heavy . I think www.raka.com is the link for the 1700 w/ no mat attached . Alot cheaper than i paid here in the fingerlakes . Im actually enjoying the work , but wish i knew more before i bought . My 60 hours of reading was a great learning curve , but once u buy u learn a whole lot more ! In 2 or 3 years i should be able to afford a bigger boat but this 21' with the 5.7 merc is alotta fun with the kids .
     

  13. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Miami,

    Just to show you what I would have used - for the next project.
    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/3733.php
    There are lots of other places to by 6oz cloth, but this is about the same price everywhere. Someone else will have a cheaper suggestion, I'm sure.

    Marc
     
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