1986 260 Sundancer Project

Now you are really raining on my parade with 7 to 10 knot currents.I had considered hanging out between Campbell River , Port Hardy and the mainland, primarily on the mainland side. I suppose that in a weather crisis I'd have to either button up and hold or go with the flow to safety.

I've had no experience in the channel. Health issues are forcing me into retirement and a pine environment. I figured if I have to relocate then boats are going to be part of the equation.

 

Well thats not bad at all if you're going to be hanging about Desolation Sound Quadra/Cortes then you have no real worries.
I've spent a 3 week holiday ocean kayaking around there with no problems.

Down south there's tons of traffic,it's deep and waves can blow up in 10 minutes,and there's no real hidey holes except on the Gulf Islands..and there may be 50 other boats trying to hide there with you.

Just stay out of the narrows when things are running,keep your tide tables handy (being aware the actual times can vary a lot) and be prepared to make a run for it when the time is right.

While waiting for the tide to change,it's a good excuse to throw out a trap and a line and maybe catch dinner.


Is that Sundancer the one with dual Chev 4.3 or the Merc fours??

Are the engines gone/blown/rebuildable?

If you have $2500 /$1500 laying around....

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rch/boa/1899774788.html

 

Your assumptions are fully correct.
When you study mechanical engineering (I did it) you learn to calculate exactly how strong a construction must be to carry a certain load. You do not guess, but look at each detail, determine if the forces act pulling, pushing, bending, shearing etc.
And then, when you are certain it will be strong enough, you add a safety margin, which is indeed 400% for industrial objects!

 

Projects like this would be much easier to plan if all the components had ASME ( American Society of Mechanical Engineers ) data clearly stamped on them. Even in the industrial world there are a lot of products that tell you nothing about their limitations and capabilities.

I worked as an oil and gas wellsite power engineer for a few years. I'd arrive at a remote wellsite at 40 below just in time to see the day crew leave for the night. I'd work a 14 hour shift by myself overseeing a few million dollars worth of equipment while sometimes overseeing ongoing chemical processes I knew nothing about. Quite often steam equipment would be froze up already when I got there. It takes a lot of time to thaw out a rock hard frozen pipe or hose. At 40 below with a 40 mile per hour wind in , in the dark I would quickly choose a replacement hose by feeling and smelling it.First step is to verify by weight estimate that it is heavy enough to withstand 85 pounds steam pressure. Next you run your thumb over the end to verify that you can feel the steel braiding in it. Follow that by feeling that there is no distortion or cracks near the fittings, that tells you that you have a relatively new hose. A quick sniff of the outside of the hose verifies what your hands have already told you.Last step is to take a very cautious light sniff of the inside of the hose to verify that it hasn't been chemically contaminated. Sniff too deeply on the wrong hose or pipe and you'll be instantly dead.

In many cases I had to change out damaged fittings and equipment with the same methodology of touch and smell.The dumbest thing I ever did was install an alternator on a large industrial engine while it was still running, from the far side while balanced precariously on top of a small shipping crate. With sparks flying and fan belt dancing on the pulley I had to blindly align an eight inch bolt with my right hand while my left hand steadied the alternator within 2 inches of a 30 inch fan blade and another belt.

 

I take it that you believe that a 40 HP diesel would be able to cope with conditions there ? I let the original motorless Sundancer go. I'm going to replace it with one that has running engines.If the motors check out really well I'll sell them once I've decided what modifications are both viable and affordable. The next few months are going to be invested in theory.

There are some very amazing boats available out there for peanuts. Over the next few weeks the pickings are going to get even better as people choose to create winter parking space and clear out of rented dock space.

 

Well it depends on the hp/speed curve..if you had it you could tell if 40 hp would do.But thats moot now.

B4 you go ripping out engines to put in some other drive, take it for a run with a gps (for speed) and keep track of rpm and maybe fuel usage.
Remember to go two ways and average out to correct for current effects.

I've had a couple gas boats like that and idling along at 900 rpm they'd do a few knots and burn little fuel.
Diesels hate idling along,with gas it doesn't matter.

Just have good tide and current tables,and pick your time when going through narrows

Tell me about it,orphan boats end up following me home.
That one I emailed for $2500 is a steal....

 

I'm finally past the depression arising from the collapse of my original Sundancer plan. I'm now going to pursue a theoretical plan of action to pursue in the near future.

So far the only thing that is firmly decided is the battery pack.That will be comprised of either 8 50 Amp 12 volt 1 hour deep cycle batteries or 4 100 Amp ones depending on the best I have available at construction time from my scrap ventures. I feel that roughly 5,000 watts is the minimum necessary to power a 26 to 28 foot hull in short runs against a nominal current. The batteries to provide 5000 watts of power for 1 hour weigh about 600 pounds in total. That is the most battery weight I would want to add to a hull of that size.

I'm somewhat decided on a fuel efficient 40 HP Diesel primary drive for emergencies and long runs.

I'm somewhat decided on a 5 HP diesel genset to use as a battery charger in the event that solar or wind charging doesn't work out.

I've found a few 400 watt wind generators advertised on line for $500.00. The blade is about 15 inches wide. I'm very skeptical that they can provide anywhere near 400 watts even in a hurricane let alone normal wind. If I can verify that they can do what is claimed then I will definitely acquire one of them.

On the solar front I have found 400 watt systems advertised at $2,000.These systems are comprised of very hard panels that I don't believe would work out mounted on a small boat. I think there is too much risk of wind or water getting under them and thereby tearing away fibreglass along with them. I'd be real excited about solar if I could find long , narrow, flexible panels that could mount in a variety of locations on the hull. So far I don't know if they even exist at a price I can afford.

 

If the 400 Watt system takes 4 sq.m. it is probably OK to buy. Larger ones have the wrong technology, smaller ones are offered by companies trying to fool you.

The long narrow flexible ones do not exist.

 

5000 watts is about 7 hp,and you hope to move a 26-28' cruiser with an extra 1200 pounds of stuff in it....plus yourself???
Good Luck.

That 5000 watts /400 amps power if that is to 50% well then OK but it's not linear.
But if it's to 100% you'll ruin them quickly...so double that battery weight

Read this:

http://www.windpowerunlimited.com/batteries/Amp_Hours.htm

In an area where there is reliable bright sunlight for maybe 6 weeks a year and you can buy very nice used 10 hp outboards for $500...buy an extra one for backup.

 

How come no one picks on you when you rate product potential by size rather than technical spec ? I trust what you are saying. It seems that all things solar electric are a total crap shoot.The few people I know that have had success with it spent a lot of money on trial and error due to fraudulent misrepresentation by their suppliers. They also spend 10 times as much money on batteries as they should even after years of relative success. I'm definitely going to spend some time and money on solar electric whether it is doomed to fail or not. It's a question of principle vs logic.

 

In the contest of principle vs logic, principle is having a hard time right now. I suppose I'll have to drop the weight of the alternative electric toys to under 500 lbs. Do you trust the wiki data on weight vs wattage for batteries ? I based my battery weight on 20 watts for 1 hour per kilo.

 

Quite simple.

The only technology worth your while is mono-crystalline.
It has durability and efficiency. Including the area lost by frames and contact strips, you get approx. 100 Watts/sq.m.
If the area is larger, the technology is poly-crystalline or amorphous, both less efficient, the latter also short living.
Anybody trying to sell you a panel smaller than 100W/sq.m. is spinning you a yarn.

 

I just found some much needed encouragement from Wikipedia on the issue of battery weight. The following quote is from the durability section of their article on Nickel Iron Batteries.

" They are being examined again for use in wind and solar power systems and for modern electric vehicles especially boats where the weight of the batteries is not an issue."

 

...but weight is an issue on a 25' cruiser.

BTW Edison/nickel irons are able to be fully discharged,so hypothetically you would less weight BUT their energy density is less than leads....as well they don't give out current as high as leads nor take high current charges.

So maybe you'd have to double (or more,or less?) up on the amount of Eds to get your needed current, even though you can run them down to 0%.

Look at the chart, B C and D compare lead to iron cells:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_battery

 

I am trying to avoid black humor and causticity on this thread but the wiki quote I gave symbolizes what I hate about the free public access internet as an instrument of research.

The following is a renewed vision of my electric drive option.In the event that this thread becomes valuable for insight, a new reader will only have to work back a few days from the end of the thread to find the latest vision statement.

It seems that Nickel Iron batteries provide an average of 40 watts for 1 hour per kilo.For the time being I am considering 150 kilos / 330 pounds worth of them for my principled but allegedly illogical commitment to a solar and wind option on my low speed cruiser. 150 kilos times 40 watts equals 6000 watts or 7.5 Horse Power for proudly exiting and reentering the harbor under fair weather conditions.I'll also be able to hopefully use the electric drive for stop and go shuttling between my crab-shrimp-lobster pots.

For the time being I am going to consider going with 200 watts solar potential covering 2 square meters of area over the main cabin area. The solar panels may amount to little more than hood ornaments for output vs demand in Canada but they will at least appease my conscience.

The wind power option has no update other than a continuing hope of 400 watts potential.

For the time being the electric drive motor will have a maximum 10 HP potential.

Given the hazards of my intended boat usage area the boat will be equipped with 2 40 HP diesel engines for long hauls and emergencies. The 2 diesel option means I can now drop the 5 HP diesel Genset .

My favorite boat for a hull remains a Sundancer 260-270 twin drive. Some of these boats come from the factory with 2 5.0 liter/ 305 cubic inch engines weighing 952 dry pounds each. In terms of hull strength that means that the total weight of all replacement components can weigh up to 1904 pounds.