1965 Venetian taxi plans

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by Joao Soares, Feb 12, 2021.

  1. Joao Soares
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    Joao Soares Junior Member

    FB_IMG_1613175940644.jpg FB_IMG_1613175969607.jpg FB_IMG_1613175984571.jpg

    Hello, I own 2 1965 VENICE TAXIS, one fully restored, and one other yet to start.
    I'm having great difficulty in legalizing them in Portugal, because they are so old.
    I need to get a CE certificate.
    For that I need the boat plans. Does anyone have one with the needed calculations so that I can join to rest of the CE certificate process?
    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    The plans are the propery of the yard that buildt them. Either they give you a copy, or you have to hire a licensed NA to produce the needed paperwork by measuring the hull. They were buildt under RINA certification, you can contact them also.

    Why do you need a CE certificate? That would only be needed if you can't prove provenance or if the boats were exported from the EU at some time.
     
  3. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Welcome to the Forum Joao.

    I am not convinced that you do actually need to get a CE certificate.
    I know that everything online re CE is very complex, but the impression I get from what this website says suggests that your boat should be exempt?
    When is CE certification for boats required? https://www.boatzilla.eu/when-ce-certification-boats-required

    Also this website -
    Everything You Need to Know About CE Marking When Buying a Boat | Boatshop24 https://www.boatshop24.com/en/community/article/buying-a-boat/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ce-marking-when-buying-a-b

    Here is an excerpt from the above site -
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Which Vessels do not Need CE Marking?

    • Vessels operated in EU/EEA countries before 16th of June 1998
    • Boats built for personal use only (if they are not brought to the Community market within 5 years time afterwards)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Your vessel was definitely operated in the EU before 1998, as she was built in Italy in 1965 (at least I assume that she was built in Italy, as she is a Venetian water taxi?).

    @gonzo are you familiar with these procedures?

    Joao, it is possible that the Authorities in Portugal are just giving you a hard time about this because they want to.
     
  4. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Regardless of the documentation you need, beautiful boat and good job, congratulations!
     
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  5. Joao Soares
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    Joao Soares Junior Member

    The boat is in Portugal for a lot of years and I can't find the invoice anymore. Even so to make the registry in Portugal I always need a previous property registry, which i never had.
    This is the country of burocracy.

     
  6. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    That is a beautiful boat.
    Desejo-lhe muito sucesso na navegação pelo Mar da Burocracia.
     
  7. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    If things are like in my country, I am afraid it will not be easy. You will have to prepare, first of all and as you indicate, the necessary documentation to obtain the "CE" marking and the first thing to do will be to create a body lines plan, as close as possible to the ship, and a General Arrangement plan.
     
  8. Joao Soares
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    Joao Soares Junior Member

    Muito Obrigado, ainda vou ter que ir a Fátima por uma velinha para conseguir tudo o que pedem. :)
     
  9. Joao Soares
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    Joao Soares Junior Member

    It's probably worst. I'll need full plans of the hull, full electrical plans, navigation and handling,tests by certified company. Users manual. And more and more and more... ... ... and afinal bill of about 4 to 5000 euro.
     
  10. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Here we go to Lourdes, where miracles also usually occur.
    I would like to help you but the body lines plan and the GA plan cannot be done by me.
     
  11. Joao Soares
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    Joao Soares Junior Member

    Bajansailor, thank you for the welcome.
    I'm sure they are giving me a hard time. It seems to me that no-one knows exactly how to proceed so they simply defend them selves by asking everything they can so that nothing comes short in the process.

    I'll read your links and verify the portuguese law, to try and find holes on their demands.
    I'll also try and contact RINA

    Thank you so much for your help
     
  12. Joao Soares
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    Joao Soares Junior Member

  13. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Joao, maybe I see things in too simple a manner, but I would have thought that this one line -
    • Vessels operated in EU/EEA countries before 16th of June 1998
    should be sufficient proof that your boat should be exempt from needing to be CE marked.

    Do you have any record of her history to show that she was in operation before 1998?

    Can you get the vessel inspected by a surveyor who has knowledge of this type of craft, and who can confirm (based on a survey) that she would have been built in the EU before 1998?
     
  14. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Great photographic report and impressive work, very conscientious and detailed. I have prepared information about several boats that were applying for the "CE" marking so if you think I can help you in something, you just have to say so. But, unfortunately, there do not seem to be uniform criteria among the various administrations, so you should, first of all, and if you have not done so already, specify with your administration, not the RINA, the documents you need. The standards to be applied are the same, generally the ISO standards for small boats, but some countries are more demanding than others. Many administrations have delegated these inspections to private companies, specialized in this matter, so it is also convenient for you to speak with some of them, which will probably give you more practical solutions than state officials.
     

  15. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    I don't think so. It's really a miracle they are even willing to talk to you about a solution. You can not prove to them that you own the boat and that it is not registered to someone else. Not even the most unbureaucratic country will register a boat without a bill of sale.
    They are offering you a way out, by registering it as a new build, and pretend to believe you buildt it yourself, or that your restauration was a significant alteration of the original. For that you need to follow the local (home)building rules. While the RCD extempts homebuilds from CE marking and ISO rules under provision that the boat is not sold for 5 years, some countries do enforce national requirements like a stability booklet or scantling rules.
    In your situation you can forget about the original plans or RINA, you can not prove where you got the boat, and that it follows the plans. What you need to do, is ask for a list of local approved NA's they work with, and have one of them put togheter the needed documentation, then sign it. Full CE compliance is only needed if you want to sell the boat in the next 5 years, or if you want to put the boat in commercial service. I stress the fact that you need a local NA, known to the authorities and familiar with the details of the local regulations. For example, it is often the case that traditionally buildt wooden boats don't have to respect the new ISO scantling rules, but some version of the old national standards.

    If you know the exact history of the boats there are other ways, like finding the last registered owner and paying him for a bill of sale, then getting a certificate of deletion from the register it was on.
     
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