16' to 33' usable cabin sailboats

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by El_Guero, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Some of the best sailors I've met are women and the finest cruising yacht I've ever seen was brought from Australia by one of the biggest busted ladies I've ever seen, which she did mostly solo.

    I disagree that women don't like cruising or even sailing in small craft. They're just like us in this regard, tentative at first, but build confidence quickly, just as we did. I've also found women seem to trim sails better and learn to do so faster then men. I think all this talk about what women don't like or can't do, is just a function of the men they're with.

    As to amenities aboard, well women justifiably prefer to have some level of privacy. I'm not much different, though admittedly, I've spelled my name in the water, as I've ghosted past a condo complex more then once, though I suspect this is just my nature, hoping someone's aunt Millie was on her balcony, with a set of binoculars. I usually wave as I go by too.
     
  2. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Yeah ? Quoting exceptions doesn't prove your theory. Yes, there are any number of good women sailors, including a few around the world examples, and its noble of you to defend female abilities - but we are talking AVERAGE preference here, not skill or abilities.

    If you want to do a proper analysis, show me a yacht club register where the number of men doesn't outweigh the women by a factor of 3 or 4 ?

    You can go on and analyze the number of professionally qualified skippers, and the number of women who have their local region boating licence.

    While we are at it, lets get the administrator to publish the numbers of female members on this forum, with male members.

    I don't make the mistake of confusing ability with personal preference, because they are not the same thing at all. Neither am I being sexist or chauvinistic - just stating facts.
     
  3. micah719
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Somewhere in Germany

    micah719 Plotting Dreamer

    Back to the bathroom problem on a small boat for a moment. Take a look at the "Penguin" design by John Welsford. The head compartment is completely separate from the sleeping/living accomodations. Add a watertight door in each bulkhead and you have compartmentalisation not seen on many much larger boats. This is one of the rare boats that have solved this problem to my satisfaction. No need to lay cable in the same place you cook, eat, sleep or sail. The design I'm kicking about for the Canal Sharpie has a similar solution.

    The suggestion to hop over the side and rely on Archimedes to dispose of the Bondi cigar is not workable to even a semi civilised former infantry beast like myself. Swimming away post-detachment will result in the thing following you in the eddies. Also, the possible presence of sharks, crocs, box jellies, neighbourhood curtain twitchers, hip deep mud, and wintry or heavy weather banishes the free-launching of digested materials to the desperation of the de-boated survivor. I'm just curious as to how Antarctic Explorers managed the business. Did it freeze in mid-air and shatter upon hitting the surface?
     
  4. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Yes, v interesting.

    I have noticed, and a few others have commented over the years, that when one is 'camping' , you tend to 'hold the number twos' for days.

    In sub arctic temps, baring your backside must have been a major trauma.

    Some months ago, I was trying to delay the inevitable at two oclock in the morning, with the rain pelting down outside the frost covered canvas.

    Character building ???
     
  5. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Unfortunately, as we get older, our "character" takes on a "power" of it's own. :)
    We have spent a lifetime of heart beating and breathing automatically, now elimination is becoming automatic TOO!
     
  6. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Below my comments here, I'm posting some information supporting them. I've BOLDED the points, to make finding them easier.

    My boats are already more than 40 years old. Should last another 40 at least and it would be foolish of me to install non-compliant heads, and be forced to change them
    . No discharge zones are more and more common. Also, while the USA isn't signed on to MARPOL, we may in the future.
    And we need to be responsible with our environment.

    Type III MSDs comply with ALL current and proposed regulations and law, do not require certification, and include composting toilets.

    Someone earlier, remarked, that the body separates liquid and solid waste. I admire the designer. Compost toilets require that separation. Urine contains ZERO fecal coliform bacteria (the criteria for type 1 and 2 MSDs based on coliform content) and I believe is legal to discharge, although maybe shouldn't be.
    I believe, upon research, a homebuilt/designed marine compost toilet is possible and legal.
    It maybe simplest to have TWO toilets. The traditional, for liquids, pumping to a holding tank with it's Y valve, and the second, composting.
    I will start a separate thread, asking for help in design DIY composting marine head. Here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/al.../design-diy-marine-composting-head-48281.html

    http://www.maritimesanitation.com/maritime.php?ID=24

    "SPECIAL NOTE: Waste treated by Type I and II MSD's is unhealthy for marine waters because (1) chemical treatment often sanitizes only the outer surfaces of waste clumps, (2) chemicals routinely used in MSD's are harmful to sea life and water quality (chlorine, formaldehyde, formaline, phenol derivatives, ammonia compounds), (3) poorly maintained MSD's may not treat effluent to the prescribed standards, and (4) even treated sewage contributes nutrients and lowers dissolved oxygen levels in water, lowering water quality for marine life.

    How Does This Affect Me? Complying with vessel sewage discharge laws and regulations, and using pump-out facilities are necessary to protect water quality, public health and the marine environment. Mariners are encouraged to get ready for no-discharge areas all along the Texas Gulf Coast by retrofitting their boats with holding tanks. This may not seem fair to those who have done the "right thing" earlier by installing Type I or II MSD's, but the national movement toward designation of no-discharge areas is changing the rules."




    http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/vwd/vsdmsd.cfm

    "Are there certain waters where the discharge of treated sewage is prohibited?

    Yes. Under the CWA and the implementing regulations, vessels are prohibited from discharging any sewage, whether treated by an MSD or not, into the following types of water bodies:

    A water body that has been designated as a no discharge zone.
    Vessels with installed toilets are also prohibited from discharging sewage into freshwater lakes, freshwater reservoirs, or other freshwater impoundments whose entrance point(s) and exit point(s) are too shallow to allow these vessels to enter and leave, and into rivers that do not support interstate traffic by vessels subject to section 312. See 40 CFR 140.3(a)(1) (PDF) (2 pp, 48K, About PDF))."


    http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5213/msd.asp

    "Changes to International Standards:
    The U.S. Coast Guard announced the availability of Navigation and Vessel Inspection Circular (NVIC) No. 1-09, which provides guidance on voluntary compliance with MARPOL Annex IV. On January 1, 2010, the revised effluent standards and performance test criteria for sewage treatment plants under MARPOL Annex IV will enter into force internationally. The United States is not party to MARPOL Annex IV; however, vessels registered in the United States visiting nations that are party may need to demonstrate compliance with MARPOL Annex IV regulations on the prevention of pollution by sewage from ships."


    "Approved MSDs: There are three different types of MSDs that can be certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to meet the requirements in 33 CFR Part 159, each having its own design, certification, and discharge criteria. For more information see 33 CFR 159.53.

    Type I is a flow through discharge device that produces effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 1,000 per 100 milliliters and no visible floating solids. This type of device is typically a physical/chemical based system that relies on maceration and chlorination. Type I MSDs are issued a Certificate of Approval.

    Type II is a flow through discharge device that produces effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 200 per 100 milliliters and suspended solids not greater than 150 milligrams per liter. This type of device is typically a biological or aerobic digestion based system.

    Type III is a device that prevents the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage. This type of device is typically a holding tank and may include other types of technology including incineration, recirculation, and composting. "

    "Portable toilets.
    Vessels having no installed toilet are not subject to the provisions of Section 312 of the Act. Portable toilets or porta-potties that use no installed water, power, etc., are not considered installed toilets and therefore not subject to the requirements in 33 CFR Part 159. However, regulations still exist to prohibit disposal of raw sewage within U.S. territorial waters, the Great Lakes, and navigable rivers. Use of portable toilets in combination with a direct discharge toilet is not permitted. Vessel owners may elect to remove installed toilets and use instead portable toilets. For vessels having a portable toilet, all non-compliant fixed toilets should be removed unless impractical or unsafe in which case such devices should be rendered permanently inoperable. "

    "Type III devices.
    Ambient air pressure & temperature. A Type III device that stores sewage and flushwater at ambient air pressure and temperature is not subject to formal U.S. Coast Guard certification if it meets the requirements in 33 CFR 159.53(c). Such devices will have no U.S. Coast Guard Certificate of Approval, no U.S. Coast Guard letter, and no device label."

    http://www.dep.state.fl.us/cleanmarina/cva/boater_faq.htm#9

    "How do you tell if an MSD is U.S. Coast Guard approved?
    For Type I or Type II a label is affixed to the device or there is a letter or document on board for Type 1 or 2 MSD; Type 3 does not require a label."
     
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  7. seasailor55
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Lake Charles, LA.

    seasailor55 Senior Member

    Ryd-16.9

    Love the boat, Paul. Awesome pocket yacht design, especially the mizzen staysail.

    Sorry I can't send you a check, but with a CD22, a PY23, and an ancient Ensign (did I mention two Hobie 16's, a Chrysler Dagger, a Sunfish, a 50 year old Rebel sloop, and two canoes) already in the fleet we're a bit full.

    Regards,

    Scott

    FYI - pics of the CD22 at the yacht club after 2 yr. restoration. Launch day this Saturday, weather and tide permitting.
     

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  8. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Well.

    3 boats for 4 pages. And 80 toilets? DANG someone got preoccupied!

    I like this boat! http://www.macgregor26.com

    Any other great designs?
     
  9. micah719
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 30
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    Location: Somewhere in Germany

    micah719 Plotting Dreamer

    Just elaborating on John Welsford's "Penguin" as mentioned previously.

    The design and some notes are here:
    http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/index.htm

    And an appetizer, the following sketch is from the same page. I've got a few pics of builds vacuumed from the web (she's a lovely looking boat) but can't remember the links and am far too lazy to track them down again. My personal preference would be a hybrid of "Penguin" and "Swaggie", eliminating the open aft cockpit, but that's a matter for negotiation between Mr Welsford and my wallet.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    I still like my trailerable Albin 25s.
     

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  11. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Lots of Albin 25s trawler photos on web, but few showing the sail rig.
     

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  12. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    Thanks for posting on the penguin. I like the design. The separate compartment for the "head" is a nice feature, but I think that the boat is slightly on the small side to have a dedicated space for the johnnie as it looks like it cramps the interior. I think though, as a whole, the design is well thought out.

    I'm designing and building a 24' trailerable sailer and was surprised by the similarities between the Penguin and my design. I've been pondering some head arrangements in my design and Johns approach may get the go at the risk of losing some cabin area. Thankfully, my wife is a true watergirl and has no problems with the "pee can" or the other end of things. I think the teenage daughter has the bigger issues (all around:rolleyes:).
     
  13. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    The fotos below, only ONE is mine.
    The Albin 25 on the trailer without tires, is exactly as I found her and bought for $500. I have two Albin 25s, each bought for a song, but restoring/refitting is costly.

    The other fotos are to demonstrate the 6foot1inch headroom in the forward cabin and wheelhouse. The head is stand up and opposite the galley.

    Incredible room in a 3600 lb 25 ft LOA trailer sailor. :)
     

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  14. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: California

    troy2000 Senior Member

    You couldn't get them to throw in some tires as boot? :D
     

  15. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    The new tires on rims cost me $100 each. $500 with a spare. But I had confidence in them, which I Wouldn't have in old dry rotted ones.

    So $1000 going down the road behind my 3/4 ton dodge? I was SINGING! :D
     

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