14' concept sailing W

Ok

CT,
I suppose planing is just another way to achieve greater speed when enough power is available, but if the boat is fast enough (e.g. cat) it probably doesn't need to plane.
In my view standing is more than just means to stabilize the boat, but a natural and fun "micronautical" experience for the user/s:
For example think about snow sports: Would you rather sled or ski cross-country and down the slopes?
Surfing is another example: For every kayak-surfer on the beaches here in New England you'll find a hundred "regular" surfers that do it standing.

We're bipedal and pretty good in practicing our bipedalism so we naturally enjoy moving about in the standing position, whether it's jogging, biking, skiing or surfing/windsurfing (and recently paddle-skiing and W-sailing...)
The problem is just more difficult to solve on water, but when it's done it adds a new dimension of fun.

Skippy
You sound like a real boat designer
In the micronautical world you'll find that "rolling" is commonly used for that odd maneuver some kayakers take so much pride in: staying inside your boat while it's capsized and rolling it back to it's initial (unstable) position with a swift paddle stroke...
Personally, I prefer to paddle a small boat that's much more stable and offers better comfort.
As for sailing kayaks...hmmm, -some things are better left unsaid

Mackid
I'm glad you like the micronautics thing -"micronautic", "micronautical", "micronautically"...-Seriously, I find a tiny sailing boat has a lot in common with a windsurfing board or a canoe, in some aspects more than it has with a big boat.
It's totally subjective, but people tend to put themselves in the center of their experience, and the individual user/operator/passenger actions and behavior are critical in very small vessels, much more than they are in big boats.

A PWC version of a W is an exciting idea (at least for me ), but I guess the subject would better be raised in the Powerboats forum

I have dealers for the W1 mainly in New England (just recruited one in New Zealand for Australasia...) but I look forward to see boat designers, manufacturers and builders other than myself start playing with their own designs of micronautical solutions based on the W invention.

Yoav

 

I love the PWC idea, keep working at it By the way, you could call your company Micronautics, though I like the W boats (name W=hull shape, right?), how about it? Additionally, I'd like to sea (er...) see a motor mount option eventually. It would be wonderful. By the way, how much water would the W1 draw with a 240 lb. load (1 person, a child and gear)?

 

Re "I suppose planing is just another way to achieve greater speed when enough power is available, but if the boat is fast enough (e.g. cat) it probably doesn't need to plane."

Actually these days, skiffs are arguably faster downwind than even high-performance cats. The cats - and I'm talking stuff like the world's best A Class and F16s - now excel upwind not downwind. Downwind, because they can't plane efficiently, they reach a certain maximum speed and then find it hard to go faster. They WOULD like to, it's just that they can't plane effectivfely due to aspect ratio problems. This is not my idea, it's from many naval architects and other qualified designers. Even Uffa Fox, "inventor" of the planing dinghy, was well aware of the fact that short fat shapes plane well and long skinny ones don't.

I'm still not exactly sure of the skiff v cat performance, because no-one I know is aware of a recent race where the top cats and top skiffs have come up against each other. One of the best tests I can recall was many years ago, when the top 18' skiffs and the world's best C Class cat (the wing masted Victoria 150) raced against Tornadoes with and without spinnakers. The C Class won by miles, but the skipper of the top 18 told me his chase boat timed the 18s as faster downwind in the moderate (15-18 knot IIRC) knot breeze. The first couple of 18s beat the first couple of Ts. But all those classes have developed since.

 

micro....

Personally, I like microSAIL!......
Since CT didn't bring it up I feel it is my duty to do so: last year in racing against them a UK Moth guy by the name of Simon Payne became convinced that a FOILER Moth is around 15% faster than a 49er, the Olympic Skiff. In other races Rohan Veal, current World Champion of the Moth Class showed a Moth to be faster than A class catamarans around a course. So it seems that displacement hulled cats and planing skiffs have been/are about to be eclipsed by well designed sailing monofoilers that carry far less sail than a skiff or cat for their size and by definition must be the most efficient form of sailing around, I would guess.
Icetreader, you have an innovative little boat there-standing or sitting-good luck with it!

 

Micronautics, PWC, cats etc.

Mackid
Thanks for the moral support on the W PWC
Actually, the official name for the patent on this invention is "Twin hull personal watercarft"...
Maybe one day there will be a "Micronautics" forum on Boatdesign where designers and builders could discuss very small water crafts without feeling intimidated by the big boys?
-The W1 carrying 240 lb has a draft of 5.7", which means a B/D of nearly 1:1 per hull

CT
What you say may be possible but I think that overall multihulls are faster than comparable monohulls by a statistically significant speed advantage of around 25% (see http://www.sailspeedrecords.com/ )
And cats seem to be better suited for hydrofoils...

Thanks Doug
This is a good example of a micronautical subject -"Mono vs. Cat in Personal Sailing Boats". -The moth is an amazing craft, but when it comes to most people who are not super-athletic (at least I am not...) it is too "sporty" I.E. difficult. Same goes for windsurfers which are both very portable and very fast but not stable enough for most people to consider as a realistic option for "Fun".
I don't know what the sailing speed potential is for the W concept -I suppose that with hydrofoils it could go fast - My concern is offering a sailing boat concept that's portable and easy to use yet stable enough to be comfortable for the average beginner or "Weekend Sailor".
Having said that I'll be very happy to see this thing developing into a racing class as well

Yoav

 

I hear that! Isn't the moth really fast and intended for really high level sailors (at least in heavy wind?) I say the W has a lot of potential. It can go fast enough if needed, but most importantly, it's versatile and STABLE.

 

Changes

I think the W has potential and was not comparing it to the Moth or vice versa. As it stands now the Moth is a fairly difficult boat to learn to sail.
My point was that the Moth has singlehandedly(pun intended) redefined the relationship between mono's and multis and between"Traditonal" skiffs such as the 49er and foler skiffs such as the Moth.
Th Moth has proved faster than the A class cat and may well,according to those in the know, be faster than the F18. This is important: for the first time in history a monohull is beating a high performance cat or two. And it is beating a Skiff with almost three times more upwind sail area!
This kind of performance will be translated to more user friendly boats as time goes by and to two person boats as well-it is simply a revolution in sailing.
This takes nothing away from innovative small boats like the W- it just redefines the speed hierachy in sailing in a most remarkable way!

 

Moth W - W moth

Mackid and Doug

I appreciate your support for the W concept

The moth has certainly contributed to eroding the notion that small boats had to be slower.

I don't see an unbridgeable contradiction between the moth and the W:
It's possible to imagine a "W moth" or a "Moth W" that would offer improved stability and comfort at lower speeds and/or to sailors for whom "flying" a mono moth is too difficult (that is 99% of potential sailors, I guess).
Additionally, such vessel would enable sailing standing in better conditions than those offered by windsurfers (yet another high-speed / low-comfort concept).

As for designing such a thing (hybrid?), I would be glad to cooperate with other micronautical designers, or at least assist them in introducing the W "genes" into the new creature.

Yoav

 

It's a thing of beauty, that's what it'll be.

 

Beauty

Yep, maybe the beauty of being practical?

 

Yeah...practical, but with enough arm power/windpower...FWOOOSH!

 

Rig

Yoav, have you built and tested the rig yet? I think it has tremendous potential.

 

I believe that he has. Check wavewalk.com click Sailing.

 

Whoosh!

Doug, I sailed the little W1 with the small "crab claw" rig both riding and standing. It was fun and easy, and I did OK even in strong gusts of wind, so it's possible to say the performance was good in terms of comfort and ease-of-use.
That's a movie showing the standing part: http://www.wavewalk.com/Sailing%20Standing.WMV

Following that I built a bigger rig that I'm planning to test as soon as possible.

As for the "Whoosh" high-speed performance design or "W-moth" concept I'd need high-level sailors to cooperate with...-Perhaps you and/or our friend Mackid would be interested?

Yoav

 

whoosh

Yoav, don't try for a high speed version if equaling or surpassing a Moth 's speed is the goal-the W hull form probably won't work well for that....