10' Pram Advice Wanted/Needed!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by itskens, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. itskens
    Joined: Aug 2012
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    Location: Springfield, Oregon

    itskens Junior Member

    Hi All!

    I'm wanting to build a ~10pram for hunting with my dog 'round lake/marsh margins and for crossing the river and mellow water anchoring and fishing. I weigh 220#; dog=100#; gear 50-100#. So, I'm looking for something to safely float ~400-450#.

    I'm thinking that I need a compromise.. neither a river runner, 'nor a long distance racer. I just want to paddle/row ~100-200yrds to get where I and others can't go with waders.

    This is modeled so that the wide transom is headed downstream, when drifting; or when rowing somewhere, the narrow transom it headed in the direction of travel.

    I first modeled a Hudson Springs Pram: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/messer/hudson_springs/index.htm

    I modified it by raking back both transoms, for river use. I then widened the sides and freehand cut a bottom out and created the sides and transoms to fit.

    I don't know how to use the FreeShip software. I might figure out Hull. But I need some sound advice on how to modify what I have. I've attached pics.

    1"=1' So the bottom=8", or 8' long; Bottom is 45" wide; Narrow transom is 27" at bottom; Wide transom is 40" at bottom; Beam is~ 66"; Transom top to top is 9'10.5"; Sides are ~18-19" actual height/width and just shy of 10' long.

    There's some rocker in this, but not much. I'm thinking I could easily narrow the narrow transom some and a touch on the wide transom. I'm thinking that this is way overbuilt for the weight I've given above.

    Could I go narrower than 45" overall? I've seen prams from 38.5" to 48" wide. Could I go a little shorter on the side height? I'm really open to all ideas!

    Many thanks! Ken
     

    Attached Files:

  2. pinetar
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: lake ontario

    pinetar Junior Member

    Might work fine for fishing in very protected waters but I'd be hesitant about hunting with dog. Think in terms of how will I get the dog back in the pram. I have a 12' aluminum row boat and getting a dog in it from the water would be challenging if the dog weighs much over 40lbs. I would be hesitant about trying to get my Springer back in the boat. 14'-16' might be a better size. Attaching a boarding float might be another possibility to help the dog get in? A traditional sneakbox designed for hunting might be a better solution and there are free plans floating around.
     
  3. itskens
    Joined: Aug 2012
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    Location: Springfield, Oregon

    itskens Junior Member

    I wasn't sure a sneakbox would provide the room for me and my dog and dekes.... and, I'd like to drift a bit, too. But I'll have another look. Thanks!
     
  4. pinetar
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: lake ontario

    pinetar Junior Member

    Take some time to research sneakboxes! Market hunters used to have their dog, decoys, camping gear, etc. and be out hunting a couple of days at a time. Decoys are usually transported on the decks. There were sailing models to which gave the hunter a break going to and from market. Today one could row/sail or even fit a small outboard. The low decks provide an easier entry/exit for the dog. I think you would find a sneakbox more useful than a pram though a bit more work to build. I have seen fiberglass sneaks somewhere.
     
  5. itskens
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    Location: Springfield, Oregon

    itskens Junior Member

    Thanks!
     
  6. pinetar
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: lake ontario

    pinetar Junior Member

    Ken,

    You're welcome! Learn to shoot, train a dog, build a boat, go hunting, enjoy a duck or goose dinner! Green with envy!

    Jack
     
  7. itskens
    Joined: Aug 2012
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    Location: Springfield, Oregon

    itskens Junior Member

    I forgot to post this pic with the others:
     

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  8. itskens
    Joined: Aug 2012
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    Location: Springfield, Oregon

    itskens Junior Member

  9. pinetar
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: lake ontario

    pinetar Junior Member

    Big? Not for a drift boat being anchored in current. Today, I think we (me included) tend to use much smaller boats than would be otherwise advisable. I had to reconfigure my motor arrangement on my boat moving my gas tank as far fwd as possible to help balance the boat for my fat butt for fishing. In a boat 4' longer it might not have been required. We also tend to want an all purpose boat which is tough. A good boat for drift fishing on a river isn't likely to be a good boat for waterfowl hunting. I guess we pick our poison and live with it.
     
  10. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    More than a hundred years of developement for the duck hunters sneakbox should not be dismissed. The sneakbox has the advantage of being less conspicuous than a pram. It will be propelled easier, it will give some relief to the dog getting both in and out, and a lot more proven reasons for its widespread adoption as a duck boat.
     
  11. itskens
    Joined: Aug 2012
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    itskens Junior Member

    I just checked in and found two more responses.... Yes, my 16'x48" driftboat is more than needed for little riffles,, or even bigger water. I've seen an elder man, more elder than me, launch his dinky boat and row upstream and steelhead fish,, do the deed, pack his boat back in his tiny Datsun pickup and go home.....

    And,, I will keep looking at other sneakboxes. I haven't really intended to hunt out of it,, but that's a possibility. Where I'm taking this is flooded wetland/grasslands, with islands... not that big, but the moats around,, and sometimes the plowed clay fields, prevent reaching some huntable areas.



    So, I've been chewing on what many suggested 'bout building a jon boat,, and that I need a boat for every purpose.....

    First, I like that pram I worked up, but don't think that I'll like it for marsh use, getting from pt. A->B.... So, I've been looking at canoes... Too tippy for my comfort level, with a 100# dog.

    But where I'm thinking now, is sort of a hybrid of ideas. I found this Wenonah Backwater 15' canoe: http://www.wenonah.com/products/template/product_detail.php?IID=230...

    And you're asking... "why not just by the darn canoe and be done with it??!"

    Well, I'd like to build something and secondly, I don't like the narrow space in the front of the canoe, unless I stuffed it with decoys.

    This boat is 41" at the gunwales, w/ 37.5 @ waterline and it's 15' (I'm assuming that's around the gunwales). Nice L:W ratio! I'm not concerned with going more than 200yds, one way. I wouldn't be paddling/rowing miles in it.

    My idea is to take this basic design and chop the front end off to somewhere 'round the front seat. That would become the stern. I would keep the general shape, but would widen it to ?? 43"???, and put a little rocker in it and flare the sides, especially up front to bring the nose up out of the water and I would put a raked transom in the front, or even do as some have suggested and add some jon cut to the front. Though, I think it would glide and ride better if I just started to flare the sides. I'm thinking ~12 gunwale length??,, more????

    So,, does the design concept sound reasonable?

    Could I do this with ply/glass and keep it under 100#

    Would this design safely carry 400# at 12'x43"?

    Thank you all for your advice and especially your patience in my process!!
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Not sure if this was mentioned , but square cornered boats make a lot of gurgle noise in the water...hunters, fisherman prefer quite boats with no hard wave gurgling edges
     
  13. itskens
    Joined: Aug 2012
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    Location: Springfield, Oregon

    itskens Junior Member

    Thank you for that! I was actually going to taper/trim the back for hydrodynamics,, but/and I'm only using this to get to a destination, rather than to hunt out of,, but that's a good thing to keep in mind in the design and construction. That Mekong boat also tapers, rounds off, as you suggest.

    Wow!.... I'm seeing that what I thought posted,, was not..... I'll post more soon..

    What I posted in the chopped canoe, was the idea of making a jon-can-pram.... Using a canoe shape to make a pram and perhaps add the elements of a jon boat to the front....
    I would actually round the back, wide transom a bit and keep the sides a little steep, but begin to flare the sides, forward of mid-ship and mostly in the front 1/3, where I'd rake the transom back and have some rocker, as well.

    Here's the similar and more expounded thread on WoodenBoatPeople.com... I started with a multi-purpose pram for river/pond use,, but switched to just a boat for marshland exploring w/400# load.
    http://westcoastwoodenboats.ning.co...eeded?id=1312281:Topic:112782&page=1#comments
     
  14. itskens
    Joined: Aug 2012
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    Location: Springfield, Oregon

    itskens Junior Member

    Yes,, it's coming down to some sort of boat, similar to this Mekong boat,, only much shorter and a bit wider. My real concern is building something that is neither too big, nor too small... mostly, not too small and unusable. So I'm wanting to get a handle on some basic dimensions. Would a 12'x42-43" Jon-Pram, kindof similar to the boat below have enough displacement??

    http://www.pvv.org/~erikad/Themepages/Travel/Vietnam/Vietnam_bilder/Mekong_Boat_Girl.jpg
     

  15. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: California

    troy2000 Senior Member

    The general shape of the boat you posted seems reasonable to me...

    I wouldn't bother with glass. Instead, I'd go with a couple of coats of good exterior, semi-gloss house paint over a compatible primer, and touch up any scratches between uses.

    Here's a link to the build thread for a flat bottomed canoe I built; it may give you some ideas. I've never weighed it - but I can grab it by a gunwale, tuck it under my arm, and carry it with no problem. I used 1/4" plywood for the bottom. For the sides I planed 1x12 pine planks down to roughly 1/2", but I see no reason why you couldn't use 1/4" plywood there too.... just make sure you have a reasonably solid transom if you want to put a small outboard on it. That was my original intent, but the trolling motor I've been using, combined with a paddle or short-distance maneuvering, works so well I've never bothered with an outboard.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/wo...ation/building-flat-bottomed-canoe-33266.html
     
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