Surfing Yawl

There wasn't any "daysailers" in the fleet under the common definition. One of the two boats that lost the most crew was Ariadne, a conventional Carter 3/4 toner of about 5000kg. Despite the criticism of wide-stern boats, Ariadne had a conspicously narrow stern and, if like most Carter 3/4s, a skeg-hung rudder\.

Ariadne


Trophy also lost four men after they got into a liferaft. The boat was not a "daysailer"; she was a Holman and Pye Oyster 37, which was modern but not an IOR racing machine and weighed about 7500kg which was 50% heavier than a lightweight of the time.

Flashlight, which was a 4700kg Ohlson 35, was in no way a daysailer or an IOR machine but she lost two men. She had a narrow stern and a skeg.



Yes many people hopped into a raft too early and lacked a full set of storm sails.

I have known a bunch of people who did the race, and many other major races, and they regarded it as distinctly windy although not the worse they had seen. They did public lectures and briefings here in Australia after the event and none of them - including those who won the America's Cup and world titles and done many windy Sydney-Hobarts - regarded it lightly.

It's funny how people use the 1979 Fastnet to criticise boats designed decades later, but ignore the very high loss and DNF rate in the old designs in the Golden Globe race. I don't like Beneteau Oceanis' much, but it seemed significant that when one of the 'seaworthy' old designs in the GG set off a Mayday, a singlehander in the French race going on at the same time went to the rescue in his Oceanis.

 

You just wrote that giving up seaworthiness in favour of accommodation is a good thing as far as many are concerned. Horses for courses. Met 4 Hillyard owners over the years, 6, 9 and 12 tonners, never heard the non-tacking issue before, maybe they knew how to sail their boats or just never thought to mention it?
Ignoring a downside is accepting the fact that most boats are a compromise.

 

I thought this was a boatdesign forum. If you have no interest in the subject matter, you will find a in the corner of your screen. No need to involve yourself in subjects you have no interest in.

 

I have a lot of interest in the subject matter. The claim that boats need to surf to survive a gale as the only method makes no sense. It makes as little sense as recommending to unship the rudder in bad weather. It would be like telling people to remove the steering wheel of their car if the roads are slippery.

 

Where did he claim that? I see posts about using a sea anchor from the bow.

 

Post 1: "Case A) the gale is coming from the stern, then we surf and surf"
Also the title of this thread

 

First there is the rudder that is standard today for a yacht, which is the rudder that breaks and then sinks the boat

(we have seen lot of yachts sinking)

Then we have the rudder that breaks (with a few tiny pieces of steel) and it is a great advance because the sailboat does not sink

I want a 25 mm horizontal steel axis, a rudder blade that if a rope gets caught it will survive, and also be able to anchor safely at sea

- you are crazy, that is very dangerous

(and we are talking about people who have been lost for 100 years, turning around two fuxxx axes, Yaw and Pitch)

 

(total HydroDynamic Yaw Moment of an 'average' Cruising Yacht. No rudder deflection)

The Aero- and Hydromechanics of Keel Yachts https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-319-13275-4

This industry is a spherical nonsense, no matter how you look at it

The intriguing thing here is to investigate how it was forged

I imagine that it is a combination of

a great inertia from the past, the professionals who come from a world of Big ships, regattas, summer vacations, the commercial department... I don't know, it would have to be investigated

 

Total HydroDynamic Yaw Moment. No rudder deflection.

Yacht with permission from the control tower to take off

T. Harrison Butler in Memoriam

 

...

- You old fogeys are exaggerated, some radicals, some revolutionaries

- ok, agreed

- Neutral balance

 

A Monohull yacht is four things

1) structural integrity: the ballast does not fall, the rudder does not break, the mast does not break

2) passive safety

3) ability to surf big waves comfortably and safely

4) ability to hold the bow against the wind and waves

Nowadays (imho) the most normal thing is (even paying a fortune):

1) C-D
2) B-C
3) A-D
4) D

(The megayacht Bayesian capsized and sank for a long list of reasons, and the first of them was the difficulty of keeping the bow to the wind)

 

Everything that the racing classes (Mini Transat, Class 40, IMOCA) do to gain a tenth of a knot ... is quickly either applauded as a brilliant idea or in any case justified

And the complaints and proposals of the old fogies concerned about safety, the beauty of functionality and comfort ... are looked upon with wonder

---

- I want to get a rudder blade out of the water to gain a quarter of a tenth of a knot

- Perfect, magnificent, brilliant idea

- I want to get the rudder blades out of the water so that my little boat can be safely anchored in sand and mud... and also so that it can anchor in the sea like Robert Manry did

- WTF !

 

Yes, horses for courses. And yes, ignoring a downside is logical since all boats are compromises. But the OP seems to ignore that some horses suit some courses and also that there are compromises - if a boat does not suit what he like he abuses it.

The point was not that Hillyards are bad boats, but that every boat has its issues. Some people tend to accept those issues while raising hell about the issues on other boats.

 

Having rudder blades that lift is completely accepted. The most popular yacht in the USA (and perhaps the world) has a rudder that pivots and everyone accepts it. I have no idea why you think anyone would think "wtf". The simple and undeniable truth is that pivoting rudders on small yachts are completely accepted. Many of us don't have them on all our boats because we are aware that they come with downsides and that in many situations other rudders are preferable.

 

Probably due to Gonzo post

"I can't see how you could remove a rudder and safely secure it on deck or down below. Even if it is a transom hung, "

Hard to believe he has not seen lifting rudder blades.