Finding plans based on specifics

Man hour quotes are all over the place, people work at different paces and often dependant on skill level.
I know a 26ft boat built from scratch in 2 months. Most people say impossible, but this was working 12 hours a day, every day, for two months. Still "quick" at 720 hours, but by someone who did not have to stop and think about what he was doing. Another person building to the same patterns might have taken 4 times as long if they were a newbie.

I have done enough refits on 26-30ft boats to know it can take 2 years of "weekends" to get a boat into seaworthy offshore capable conditions, and that is obviously not starting from zero. If your time is considered "free", then re fits can be considered good value, but often a new boat can be built in the same time, if at more capital, not labour, expense.

 

I think that is a conservative estimate.I suggest sitting down with a notepad and a pencil and listing all the hardware you will need to buy;Sails,engine,electronics,winches,mast fittings,rope,fenders,shackles,nuts and bolts and whatever you believe wood will cost.Then add on the cost of capable machinery for working with the wood,not hobby stuff as that leads to great frustration.You will need a building to shelter the work and enough space in it for tools.Lifting gear,scaffolding,big jacks,more clamps than anybody ever has and a few ladders.You might be shocked at the money required.If you don't build something that will pass a survey,it will be very hard to insure or to sell so short cuts are out.I suppose its a bit obvious to mention that you will need to get the boat to water and may need telephone cables or lampposts moved along the way.The whole project demands vast amounts of time and money.Are you sure it wouldn't be a better idea to get a part time job in the warmth for a year or two and just buy a bargain?

 

Yes, this has all already been considered. I've also watched a lot of youtubes (Nick and Megan O'Keele?) where they buy a bargain and within 5 years they are upgrading/replacing all the listed things anyway, essentially "buying" them twice. Where we move to would have the moving of the boat in consideration, which is part of the reason for researching it now, not later. Where we move to will help facilitate the project. My current part time project work includes installing lift kits on vehicles along with other various work, and general handyman work, when time permits. I gravitate towards build and fixing things. And a boat (or several, as is likely the case, working my way up) is a very exciting prospect for me to tackle. The more research I do into the amount of time and effort involved serves to excite me more and consider more possibilities, rather than dishearten. And like I've said, this is not something we are jumping head first into. This is a 10 year project for us, minimum. My goal right now is to build that list out you mentioned. Rather hard to build that list without plans, I would think!

 

These plans seem to fit your parameters, full keel limits the number of modern designs. There are plenty of wooden full keel ketches drawn that are not center cockpit or modern. Samson 'C-Breeze' 45 - Hartley Boat Plans https://hartley-boats.com/product/samson-c-breeze-45/

 

Thank You, that one does check a lot of boxes for me as well. Unfortunately I have not heard back from Mr. Roberts yet, but I really like the idea of a transom beach door and a pivoting centerboard. I will peruse Hartley and possibly send them an email.

Does anyone have any feedback on Bruce Roberts boat plans? His name is the first to pop up when googling boat plans. I was about to send him an email but figured I would ask for any experiences first, since I'm here.

 

You can do a search on Bruce Roberts on this forum's archives too.
Slocum`s Spray https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/slocum-s-spray.30617/page-7#post-401336

Converting multichine alu hull to radius? https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/converting-multichine-alu-hull-to-radius.53571/
Lament after buying study plan https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/lament-after-buying-study-plan.11805/

 

Only ever seen the set for a Spray 27 in wood. Very comprehensive and i would think most people would not have any problem using them.

Im sure someone can correct me if I am wrong, but didnt Bruce Roberts pass on last year or before?

 

Beeing dead doesn't mean one can't do business. van de Stadt retired in 1978 and died 1999, that didn't stop him either.

Seth, you need to realize you managed to combine all the currently unpopular options (full keel, divided rig, center cockpit) with a less demanded size. Asking for a "modern" profile is just the icing on top.
If you are willing to compromise there are plenty of other options, for example Gartside has some nice long keel designs Gartside Boats | Sailboats https://store.gartsideboats.com/collections/sailboats?page=5

 

Thank you for the link. Mr Gartside has a few nice options that I think would work well for what we want as well. I appreciate the feedback on the unpopular options, I'll do some more research on it.

 

There are advantages to simple- especially if plywood is involved, and interiors and systems are huge $$$ sinks

R. Parker sharpie designs plans https://parker-marine.com/parker2_1.htm

Hunt 510 for example (or a bigger Lawley 35’ version of the int 110) see drawing above…
Hunt Design - Custom - 43ft. Daysailer http://www.rayhuntdesign.com/custom-43-01.php





L Francis Herreschoff did some single chine ketch designs.

B&B have some nice cat ketch plans in the smaller rangeSailboats - Princess Sharpie 26' - B&B Yacht Designs https://bandbyachtdesigns.com/princess26

Might check out Chesapeake light Craft’s site- they have a couple of ~20’ cat ketches that sound good for you to get started. John's Sharpie - A Lightweight, Fast-Sailing Sharpie from John Harris http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/wooden-sailboat-kits/johns-sharpie-wooden-sail-boat-plans.html

Bigger cat ketches that might spark your imagination, Farfarer & Roxanne (Irens) definitely count as boat ****.FARFARER Unstayed Masts - Composite Engineering, Inc. https://composite-eng.com/portfolio-items/farfarer-mast/

J F Bedard (there….) has a cool ply cat ketch designs with modern performance, although not with a full keel.https://www.bedardyachtdesign.com/product/15-rog-micro-cruiser-plan-set-download/

 

Thank you! You have given me a lot more to process and dig into, I appreciate it. I have seen R. Parker's book listed elsewhere, its one that I haven't found in an e-book format and will probably have to order. I like some of the plans they offer as well. Looking forward to cracking his book(s) and adding it to the library.

 

If you look at my previous reply, I’ve included links. (Edit- which dissapeared, excep fro the Hunt pics… go figure…but now they’re back) Have fun. Frankly, I’d look for plywood designs in general.

check out Dudley Dix too…

Sabbatical 50ft aluminum cruising ketch https://www.dixdesign.com/sabat.htm

 

I appreciate the links. I'll keep on adding and removing from the ideal list. I think after reading up more on transom door it might get the axe. I (really) like the idea of it, but from some more reading it seems like it could be a huge danger for swamping, and is really only usable in ideal, flat conditions.

 

Most hours calcs are based on vessel weight. A more complex boat takes more hours per unit weight.

My boat, highly complex, amateur builder, ultralight materials was a little under 1 pound per hour to build.

A professional yard will build somewhere around 4 pounds. An amateur like you probably around 2 for a less complex build than mine with heavier materials.

So, vessel weight drives much.

Making some wild assumptions, a 10,000 pound vessel less complex than mine will take an amateur 5,000 hours to build. A 20,000 pound vessel 10,000 hours, and that 50 footer weighing 30.000 pounds 15,000 hours. A single person almost never works more than say 2200-2500 hours a year. There are always interruptions and limitations and shortages and vacations and tons of others .. My estimate of 7 years on the low end for a 50 footer is actually quite good for a single builder.

Keep in mind, I am trying to help. Most people who build a boat fail. The difference between a bluewater boat of say 42' and a 50'er might be a couple years. And so, refine the SOR to a boat that won't take extra years to build or pay for the hulls to he built by a yard that has lotsa hours.

 

As usual, you need to think about what you are going to do with, or how you are going to use, the boat. If you are going offshore and/or world travelling then I would recommend that you think hard about building a metal hulled vessel for a number of reasons:

1) Strength - a steel or aluminum hull will take the inevitable knocks and groundings much better than a wooden hulled vessel. See the two attached pictures. The one out of the water is an Alan Pape Ebbtide which was blown ashore and was an insurance write off. It needed to be replated and a new rudder constructed but a wooden vessel would have been matchwood under the same conditions. Similarly "Gringo" survived (obviously) but likely a grp or wooden hull ... not so much.





2) Repairs - welding or making good damage to steel is available in the most remote places, likewise welders. Skilled craftsmen with access to boatbuilding quality wood may prove difficult.

3) Speed and ease of construction - the amount of cash and time needed to complete a bare hull in metal is a lot less than sourcing quality timber ... usually ... maybe. If you live in Alaska with access to unlimited wood then ignore this last one. However, this may be a consideration.

If you don't want to build a metal hull, then if you find a plan or have a design commissioned, then there is no reason you cannot contract to have the bare hull and decks constructed and fit it out to your requirements - which means that you avoid the heavy work, get a fair and well constructed hull and can devote your skills and artistry to fitting out the interior. Which, incidentally, is the biggest part of the work on a hull that you are contemplating. What would be fine on a 25 foot boat (simple plywood cabinets with plywood doors on the lockers etc.) would NOT be acceptable on such a yacht that you are contemplating.

But as it is links to designs that you want, then try Kasten Marine (they specialise in metal hulls but do design for wood too) and are willing to modify or commission a new design to suit your requirements.

Kasten Marine Design - Modern Classic Yacht Design http://kastenmarine.com/index.htm

Jay Benford may have a suitable design that may appeal - and he does plans for wood construction too. Benfords plans usually give you several sail plan options and interior layouts which you can mix and match. His Cruising Designs book is worth having for the advice and the plans illustrated in the book.

Benford Design Group http://www.benford.us

Both of those designers have lived aboard yachts for long periods so are likely to have a better understanding of long term liveaboard requirements than "weekend and annual holiday" sailors.

If you can get over the "not an ultra modern look" (i.e. a Lazer dinghy scaled up to whatever length needed with a cabin) then William Garden's Porpoise (45 foot 9 inches x 13 foot 4 inch beam x 5 foot 8 inch draft) might suit. Many have been built by liveaboard couples and they are well thought of. And it is wood too.

https://**************/porpoise-garden

Try to obtain his book called Yacht Designs by William Garden as the chapter on Porpoise runs to 10 pages with five different interior layouts illustrated. There are many designs around your preferred length in that book which might suit your tastes too.

Note that provided you don't move the big, heavy lumps (such as engines, fuel and water tanks etc.) around, then the interior can be altered to suit your tastes and ideas.