sail cargo

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by peter radclyffe, Jun 7, 2022.

  1. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

  2. kapnD
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    kapnD Senior Member

    Three or four round trips a year at an $11 million price tag doesn’t seem commercially viable?
     
  3. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    This is not a crowdfunding experiment or a greenwashing operation, it's for real, with money borrowed from the bank according to a business plan. Just like their smaller vessel, I fully expect this boat to make money for the owners. It will probably pay for itself in a year.
     
  4. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Here is a link to their website -
    Our cargo sailboat Grain de Sail https://graindesail.com/en/content/14-our-cargo-sailboat-grain-de-sail

    It is a very impressive set-up - and they must obviously be making money with the 24 metre vessel that can carry 50 tonnes.
    So much so that they have now obtained funding to build a 52 metre vessel that can carry 350 tonnes, with all the advantages of (I presume) a reduced cost per tonne thanks to the economy of larger size.
    And quite surprisingly, unlike vessels like Tres Hombres
    https://fairtransport.eu/
    Or Avontuur
    HOME - Timbercoast https://timbercoast.com/en/
    they do not take any 'trainee' crew to supplement their income.
     
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  5. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    They don't need "trainees" to be profitable, they transport french wine, cheese and pate to New York. The outbound leg pays for everything, the return with chocolate and coffee is a bonus.
    The big boat will probably be the same, maybe they will take cadets if they have previous experience with sailboats and want to do their mandatory voyages with them.
    They are a model on how it's done, no romance, no paying guests, no captain owner with tramping ambitions, just a commercial boat, purpose built for a specific route, crewed by professionals, making money for the owner back home.
     
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  6. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Meanwhile these folk are building a new traditional timber cargo vessel 'Ceiba' in the rain forest of Costa Rica - the lady in charge did her 'apprenticeship' (for want of a better word) with Tres Hombres, hence it is not surprising that there are similarities.
    The Ceiba folk are looking for 'investors' - no thanks.
    SAILCARGO INC. — Sea Clean Power https://www.sailcargo.inc/

    The Grain de Sail is a much better economic model in every way imaginable.
     
  7. Tiny Turnip
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    I've been following the Michelin WISAMO inflatable wingsail project with some interest - the ability to retrofit to existing vessels is a boon, if they can do it. Its hard to imagine that the mechanism for the telescoping mast is purely pneumatic though, particularly if the masts are unstayed. Unsurprisingly, they are rather coy with the details.
     
  8. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    There are certainly high margin import goods that currently market themselves on far more dubious stories and ecological claims. I see this as far superior in authenticity.
    These smaller cleaner freighters might reopen small historic ports and give them development opportunities celebrating the departure/arrival of goods.
     
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  9. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    This might be a sign of things to come. Someday there is likely to be a carbon fuel crackdown. I imagine it will come in three forms:
    1.) an outright ban on some fuels, such as the crude bunker fuel used in today's diesel ships,
    2.) a tax on less egregious carbon emitting fuels, and
    3.) a ration sysystem on carbon fuels that are considered indispencible, such as perhaps jet fuel.

    Such a system is likely to make all but the largest diesel ships far less profitable. Smaller ships, including fishing vessels, will then likely sprout some sort of sail assists. Those might be sails or cylindric rotors. Depending on how severe this rationing/taxing system gets, it may no longer be affordable for most people to fly accross the Atlantic. Crossing on a motor ship may prove to be even more expensive. This will leave sailing ships or sail assisted ships as a cheaper option, though it will be far less timely.

    As for cargo, today's giant container ships are going to be very hard to beat. They offer considerable economy, due to their enormous size. And for logistical efficiency, they are impossible to beat. They will probably have to burn cleaner fuels, but I see them getting a real pass.

    perhaps some cargo will go on sail assisted or even purer sailing ships. I imagine these will be four masted schooner, with enormous center boards or drop keels.
     
  10. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Yes, I think it would be pretty much impossible to try to 'beat' these ships in any way - the only way would be if fuel became ridiculously expensive or even unobtainable. But then the sailing ships still need to carry some fuel as well......
    Re burning cleaner fuels, I have not been on board any of these huge container ships, but I have had survey jobs on some of the big cruise ships, and they have all been fitted with exhaust gas scrubbers (which cost literally millions to supply and install) in order to comply with emissions regulations - I would guess that these big container ships are now doing the same as well (?).
     
  11. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    The economics of big oil fueled freighters that "can't be beat" are incomplete at best. I worked in automotive and we spent tens of billions cutting emissions that foreign competitors blew just shipping their cars over. Don't look at the economics of panamax freighters and say ecco can't compete, look at what it is costing to save less emissions from domestic industry and say WTF!
     
  12. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Sail cargo will remain the domain of specialized cargoes for specific markets, the economy of scale is simply not there. General cargo will continue by the usual containerships, powered by green fuels. Maersk has orderd 12 methanol fueled ships (16 000 TEU each), and MSC has orderd 6 dual fuel (diesel+LNG) ammonia ready ones. Stena has methanol fueled tankers in operation and on order, and so on.
    Altough the total efficiency from generation to propulsion is very low for both methanol and ammonia, right now there is no other realistic alternative. Once the infrastructure for this big consumers is in place, we will see spillover in some other markets.
     
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  13. comfisherman
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    comfisherman Senior Member

    Cute... probably not all that applicable to my region. Grandad saw the last sail freighter leave our area the first year he was there. Since then it has been tugs and barges ever since. Said the tall masts were a sight to behold.

    Neat idea to ship high value non essential cargo with one, saves cargo space for essentials. Figure it as a win win situation.
     
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