Sea Sled madness. It’s in my brain.

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by DogCavalry, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Of course sir, of course. Insofar as those can be established. I mean, empty certainly. But fuel right at the transom varies by 700#, 320kg. Cargo in the forward cockpit varies by 3000#, 1400kg. And I just finalized the engine, for the forseeable future it will be an Evinrude 250 at 530#, 240kg. I wanted, still want a pair of 150's at almost twice that weight. Thankfully it's almost a barge form. Large shifts in CG mean small shifts in trim. Within reason of course.
     
  2. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Senior Member

    IMG_20220503_144515815.jpg IMG_20220503_144520360.jpg Finally wrapping the built up roof edge. Much harder than it has any reason to be, because the shelter has sagged to the point that it rests on the roof.
     
  3. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Barry Senior Member

    Good morning
    Your next project will be steering.

    Some things to consider:
    Feedback- some systems will provide negligible feedback, when you are running, and on a slight turn, you do not have to hold the wheel with force. Similar to the old manual steering wheels in cars, back in the day as compared to power steering which you can hold with a finger.

    Input torque to the wheel- If you have to exert a lot of effort to turn the wheel the steering can get uncomfortable. Additionally, if you say hit the throttle when the engine is turned, it can be an effort to straighten it out.

    Lock to Lock wheel turn- the tech guys at Seastar/Dometic, say that 5 turns lock to lock is a target. Higher turns mean less input torque. Lower turns more input torque. Touch base with them for your application

    Space to run the cables on mechanical styles- the cables are quite rigid and hence need large radiuses/radii to make the turns from the helm to the gunwale and the gunwale to the engine. Depending on the physical shape of your motorwell,
    the cables can be in the way of working space. Hoses offer tighter turns on hydraulic systems and can come in from various positions.

    Styles
    Rack and pinion at the helm were pretty common when motor horsepower and weight are say below 100 horsepower. The disadvantage is that there can be quite a lot of feed back through the wheel making it harder
    to turn the wheel and and the rack took up maybe 24 inches under the wheel. Inexpensive. Obviously cable from the helm to the motor. Input torque can be quite high.

    The rotaries offer a smaller footprint and are lower on feed back. Reasonably priced. Cable helm to motor.

    Hydraulic steering properly matched, ( number of turns lock to lock) extremely low, if any, feed back and low input torque. They take up the least amount of space under the helm. Note that you need adequate clearance
    in the motor well for the ram. You can google a set of Seastar installation instructions to check the clearance. Starting to get pricey as compared to the cable steering. Another advantage is that the hydraulic hoses
    can be quite easily routed.

    Within the Seastar domain there are two series Baystar and Seastar. Baystar runs plastic tubing for the hydraulic fluid and Seastar runs hydraulic hose. The hose is more flexible for turns. I think that Baystar is good for up to 140 hp.
    Baystar systems are around $1,200. I think that the ram volume is around 7.3 cubic inches

    Seastar has a large range up to quadruple racing motors but the starting range would be fine for your 250. They have a very good website to sort your way through the project.

    The Seastar systems are sold by components.
    Helm- various cubic inches per revolution of the wheel. This allows you to manipulate the number of turns lock to lock and the ease of turning the wheel. The average target is around 5 turns lock to lock.
    Hoses- length
    Ram- The Seastar ram for your application will more than likely be the 8 cubic inch model. So to get to the number of turns lock to lock, divide the 8 cu.in, by the cubic inch per turn on the helm pump.

    Prices run close to $2,000 for this type of system

    Beware the packaging if you buy off Amazon. Sometimes the seller will show the higher quality/price Seastar packaging but really be selling the Baystar product. You can pretty well tell by the price AND that if it is a kit, it is more than likely Baystar

    The final step up is a power assist steering. Very high cost but certainly the Ferrari of systems

    The last item is the diameter of the wheel. Obviously the larger the diameter the higher the torque to the helm for a given force on the wheel. For the mechanical systems, this is important.

    Seastar's head office is in Vancouver. They only sell to dealers but their tech guys are impressive though busy. I would confirm the 5 turns lock to lock as they had given me this target for a jet outboard install and might be different for
    a single 250 outboard.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2022
  4. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Fantastic stuff Barry!
     
  5. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Putting lexan windows in. A few months back I tried a few things. In all cases I cut off the protective film, and sanded the faying surface carefully. Glued in 3 test panels, 1 with epoxy. Popped out easily. #2 with silicone. Basically the same.
    #3 with PL Premium. Can't get that one out. Now I'm not a beast like @BlueBell , but I am a #200 pound carpenter so not feeble either. That panel is structural now.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  6. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    I have rack and pinion from a 24' boat. May have sold the morse helm, can't recall seeing it here. But I have the cables if interested for sure...

    But for 250hp, hydraulic is the way.

    I bought a bleeder kit from a guy that is really nice if u go that way; ask me for his contact info.
     
  7. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Well, a couple days late, but the engine arrived. The "rigging" included is a box of bits though. Incomplete and broken. IMG_20220504_160628708_HDR.jpg IMG_20220504_154238543_HDR.jpg
     
  8. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Thanks @fallguy . Whole lot of no steering here.
     
  9. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Senior Member

    @fallguy tell me about this steering please.
     
  10. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    I think it is jist a morse rack and pinion set of cables.
     
  11. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Ah, okay.
     
  12. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Barry Senior Member

    If you go with a mechanical steering, the cable length has to be pretty much exact with say a foot or so of length. Depending of course if you can waste some length by creating a longer path from helm to motor
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2022
    DogCavalry likes this.
  13. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Thanks Barry. It isn't as immediate as I'd hoped. Everything aside from the bare engine is missing. No cables, control/throttle assembly is incomplete, no power cables, no guages. I asked about yhis stuff, told them I needed complete basic rigging. Nothing fancy, but complete. Discussed guages etc. Discussed electric steering, etc. They added a few grand to the price and srnt me a box of scraps. I wish I was Tony Stark. He can build anything with a box of scraps, in a cave.
     
    Stofferaus likes this.
  14. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . _ _ _ . . . _ _ _

    You could also make a "rope and tiller" steering set-up yourself.
    1/8" ss cable, pulleys, etc.
    All the bits are around, used. I have one from an old Boston Whaler.
     

  15. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Would that have the physical capacity to manage a 250?
     
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