Sternwheeler Power Requirements

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by BigMuddy, Jan 17, 2022.

  1. rangebowdrie
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 237
    Likes: 97, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Oregon

    rangebowdrie Senior Member

    To expand a bit on the above post: Even using a diesel engine at ~1800 RPM, as in typical generator service would require a reduction gearing in the 25>30:1 ratio.
    That's some serious reduction, it's going to take a lot more that some truck transmission to do that.
    To do that with single-stage reduction would require some massive gear boxes.
    If you can use a transmission that will give, say ~4:1 reduction in 1st gear, thence to a truck rear-end with ~4:1, thence to a final chain drive at ~2:1 you'll be getting in the ballpark.
    Hydraulics work good, but they do make a LOT of noise, and the controls, valves, coolers, pumps for the coolers, accumulator tank(s), and huge amounts of high-pressure supply lines can push costs into low earth orbit.
    Blow a fitting/hose? You don't even want to contemplate that scenario.
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 16,802
    Likes: 1,721, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Keeping the brakes is a good idea; cheap too. I think that the axle of a farm tractor or a forklift will have lower gearing (high ratio) which may work better with a large diameter wheel.
     
  3. rangebowdrie
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 237
    Likes: 97, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Oregon

    rangebowdrie Senior Member

    My thoughts were, (if using a differential of some sort,) is that the spider gears need to be welded-up.
    Of course, that eliminates the ability to only drive one wheel.
    Having "normal" differential action will not work unless you are constantly shifting the brake levers back and forth/on-an-off.
    A differential will always transmit its torque to the axle with the least amount of "traction", as it were, and in the water the wheels will constantly be seeing different loads from one side to the other.
    Sternwheel boats tend to "wag their tails" a bit anyway, (slew?), and in practice the use of split-wheels was very un-common, actually fairly rare.
    The boat will need rudders both ahead and abaft the wheel, at least three, and the ability to use the fore/aft rudders independently is a good feature.
    The aft rudders have great leverage for warping/turning, and the forward rudders can alter the flow into the wheel, as well as increasing turning effort.
     
  4. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 3,093
    Likes: 1,576, Points: 113
    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Right angle wormdrive gearbox, from sumitomo heavy industry for example. Not a problem. Differential drive steering seems more expensive, vulnerable and complex than would be worthwhile, but if required, then clutch/ driveshaft/ welded up differential/ pair of standard 3 speed transmissions/ sumitomo worm drives.

    Single differential steering has been used, but works poorly as
    @rangebowdrie pointed out.

    For more info than anyone normal could ever want, see Dr R M Ogorkiewikz book "technology of tanks" from Janes books. Incredible read.
     
  5. alan craig
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 380
    Likes: 131, Points: 53, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: s.e. england

    alan craig Senior Member

    Roller chains, sprockets and housed bearings are industrial utility items and a two stage reduction could easily be assembled with standard parts and flat plates.
    Differential? yes and no; if one wheel starts to turn faster than the other - boat level - the load on that wheel will be greater and the differential will compensate. If the boat heels, the raised wheel speeds up due to reduced load and the diff. can't compensate, just like a car on ice or mud.
    But thinking a bit more about this, the effect of stopping one wheel and trying to manouvre with the other wheel so closely spaced and at the stern might not be very effective - might be better off with one wide wheel (see post 18) and maybe a bow thruster!

    I was on a steam paddle ferry/cruiser in Switzerland with both side paddles fixed to the engine shaft, no clutches. We went up a narrow river about half a mile to a stop and I thought the boat would manouvre with thrusters to turn and leave but no, he reversed the half mile down the narrow river, very impressive.
     
  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 16,802
    Likes: 1,721, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    The bottom line is that the OP has to determine the total hull resistance first. It is the one value that drives all others.
     
    DogCavalry likes this.
  7. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
    Posts: 3,093
    Likes: 1,576, Points: 113
    Location: Vancouver bc

    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Absolutely. It will define speed range, power required to reach that speed, which in turn will define gear ratios, the torque the system must be designed to manage, and the like.
     

  8. Spokart
    Joined: Apr 2023
    Posts: 1
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Apalachicola, Florida

    Spokart New Member

    I live on the Apalachicola River in Florida, it has a history of Steam Powered Paddlewheel boats. The”Samuel Floyd” once owned by actress Debbie Reynolds will be arriving there shortly. While designing to build or attempting to purchase my own Mississippi style riverboat, I came up with a plan to build ……..a bolt-on self-powered large PROPULSION SYSTEM. A Paddlewheel Assembly that can be attached or removed from any boat……by simple disconnection. The design is in progress, and the building. A better description is a “UNIT” that can be moved from place to place, attached to any suitable floating vessel, then removed and used elsewhere. The CONCEPT behind this INVENTION is so simple, it should be available world-wide. Am interested in boat builders, or dreamers, who would like to take part in this creation. Talking about sharing ideas, not $$$…lstevenspakart@aol.com.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.