Marine Biodiesel fuels

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Greenseas2, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    30% left over byproduct still can be use to make soap or grease? It is still economical.
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 16,817
    Likes: 1,726, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    So it is not so simple then. The byproducts need to either be disposed of or find a buyer for a portion of it. Are you saying that between the glicerin and all the solids in the waste oil the recovery is more than 70%?
     
  3. Ari
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 421
    Likes: 15, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 94
    Location: Port Dickson, Malaysia

    Ari Patience s/o Genius

  4. Greenseas2
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 367
    Likes: 10, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 49
    Location: USA

    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Journeytoforever is a really good site for laymen

    I think this site will explain most of what you need to know about home biodiesel production. The are several good web sites on the page that have both home refinery as well as professional input. Here we only make about 200 gallons a month for personal use and it's as clear as Cousin Bubba's moonshine...er..ethanol. It's just not that difficult to make.
     
  5. solrac
    Joined: Feb 2006
    Posts: 138
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 42
    Location: 34'54"35"47S - 56'07"48"98W

    solrac 100% sudaca

    yeap, most of the thermodynamic process is around 70% eficiency, but let's go a little deeper:
    What means "Thermodynamic efficiency"?
    - The biodiesel production, as any other transformation process, needs heat for the de-esterification, (of course, if it consumes more fuel than it produces, better forget it), but not this case.
    - The "blending" or mixing the chemicals, require some motor driven mixer, to ensure the perfect dispersion/dillution as possible (the more power, the more perfect mix)
    - The "movement" or transportation of liquids during the process requires some "pumping" (you are not so crazy to move heated oil on 160ÂșC with a spoon) a high temp pump is not peanuts...
    The sum of the above energy consumptions may be around 30% of the equivalent fuel produced, no matter what kind of energy each part of the process uses, fuel. electricity, gas, vapour or a guy on a bycicle....
    On the other corner of the process, there is a sub-product (glycerine) who still has a commercial value, maybe you can sell it to some soap producer, or even produce your own soap with it... (if the guy acquires your glycerin lives 200kmts out from you, that "energy cost" must be added to the equation also...) :D
     
  6. Greenseas2
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 367
    Likes: 10, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 49
    Location: USA

    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Removeal of solids

    Most of the solids are removed during the triple filtering process before you start refining. Good food sold/given to hog farmers locally. They pick it up. The solids shouldn't really be considered part of the refining process. The actual loss of bulk is less.
     
  7. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 16,817
    Likes: 1,726, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Not considering the solid wast as part of the process sound like cheating to show better efficiency.
     
  8. solrac
    Joined: Feb 2006
    Posts: 138
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 42
    Location: 34'54"35"47S - 56'07"48"98W

    solrac 100% sudaca

    you got the point... :D
     
  9. Thors Hammer
    Joined: Apr 2006
    Posts: 7
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Cathlamet, Washington

    Thors Hammer Thor's Hammer Boat Works

    Biodiesel is the best idea for the future marine fuels

    I have been studying biodiesel engines for the past three years and I have found that the idea is one of the plans for the future of marine fuels. The idea is not all that new the Germans in World War 2 used a biodeisel to power many of the war machines and with great success. Now in a world that is heavily controled by the oil companies we the people of the world have a right to know and used this older technology of biodeisel t opower all of our vehicals by this cheap and replenishable resource. The only problem with biodeisel is keeping the fuel from solidifying while stored in the tank. That can be fixed by inserting a heating eliment into the fuel tank. Then there are some small filtering elemnts that must be place in the filler cap. Other than that biodeisel is the best plan if people want to continue boating and driving on the roads and water ways of this planet.
     
  10. solrac
    Joined: Feb 2006
    Posts: 138
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 42
    Location: 34'54"35"47S - 56'07"48"98W

    solrac 100% sudaca

    As stated on an earlier post, you're ststing the same point, it's an excellent fuel, but with some fundamental limitations:
    -Good for big engines
    -Not too aplicable for small ones, (filter substitution will cost more than you save on fuel)
    - Difficult to be home made, or at least, not a good quality final result
    - Risky as used on "sensitive" equipment (engines on whom possibly human lives are depending on well functioning)
     
  11. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 4,742
    Likes: 78, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 659
    Location: Cornwall, England

    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    the good thing about this is the fact that it is possible to produce an alternative to the petroleum based fuel used at present. Over which the fuel companies have so much sway! (why do you think it's taken this long to get up and running - As the God of Thunder said above, it was used during the second world war, wasn't that some time ago? so what happened since You guessed it!)

    Now come the job of refining the system for everyday use - which the petrol companies won't like but will have to get used to soon! Remember this won't happen overnight, the Internal Combustion Engine wasn't invented and brought to it's present status overnight - what chance has it's fuel? Especially as theres those from certain areas fighting it! We all just got keep at it both for ourselves and the worlds sake! Even if it is only some positive support!
     
  12. solrac
    Joined: Feb 2006
    Posts: 138
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 42
    Location: 34'54"35"47S - 56'07"48"98W

    solrac 100% sudaca

    May I introduce another variable on the equation,
    from the begining of the petroleum distillation inventions, the Otto & Diesel cycles, (remember, the Diesel cycle was originally used on bio fuel) up to 21 century, the whole process of distilling crude oil to the final gasoline or diesel fuel was based on a very cheap primary product. think it was about 1973 when ARAMCO (known also as the 7 sisters, the association of Arab producers & Multinational Petroleum distribution chain) was created, the crude oil price has rised continuously, not to mention the influence of the great North Dictator in rising the prices as it fits the Northamerican policy, to the fact that nowadays some alternative fuel production can be competitive.
    The fact that producing bio fuels with a base price of crude oil on the range of U$S7 /barrel was at least crazy, producing this alternative fuel with a petroleum base price of U$S 70/barrel makes sense now.
    Do not blame the Multinationals for things they are not responsible, blame them for the ones they really are...
     
  13. Greenseas2
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 367
    Likes: 10, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 49
    Location: USA

    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Cost per gallon

    The biofuels that would cost $70 per gallon to refine are predominently the ethanol and methanol fuels. Biodiesel is significantly less to process (refine). I like the idea of stepping aside when I see the cost of gas and petroleum diesel going sky high today. Even though the base product smells somewhat before refining, it's OK because the knowledge that when a hurricane comes and most others can't get fuel because of power outages at gas station, we can jump in the car a go if necessary and fill up the tank when we get home. There may be some small difficulty that some people may find in making your own biodiesel, but isn't it worth the effort to be totally independent of big petroleum producers? Down here in south Florida, we don't have the biodiesel stabilization problem, but for those that do, the investment in a fuel warmer is well worthwhile. Being able to produce cheap biodiesel is one giant step in favor of energy independence and much the same as putting up the Air-X 403 wind generator after a hurricane when the power grid is down for days. Life is getting back to doing things for yourself rather than trusting big busines or big government to deliver the goods.
     
  14. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 16,817
    Likes: 1,726, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Many modern diesels and turbine engine designed for military puposes are multifuel. This means that a properly designed engine will run on diesel, peanut oil, gas/oil mixure, etc. Why are all this discussion about biodiesel and other non-petroleum fuels presented as if the change was irreversible. The only way to keep prices down is by competition.
     

  15. Greenseas2
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 367
    Likes: 10, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 49
    Location: USA

    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Competition

    The discussion is based on people making their own fuel and not having to deal with merchants or competition. Multifuel engines have been around for a couple of decades, but you don't see many in boats. You don't see the armed services stocking up on peanut oil either. The word multifuel seems nice, but they're still burning petroleum diesel and you and I are paying the price for it. Sorry, I'd rather pay 46 cents a gallon and not have to worry about either merchants or competition.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.