Bondwood Boat Restoration

I'm restoring a 14ft bondwood fishing boat with 3.5hp inboard. I propose to strip the fiber glass from the out side of the hull, sand and fill with epoxy then recoat with epoxy and paint. The transom and a some framing need replacing as well as the deck and floor, everything I replace I intend to epoxy and paint. I was wondering if the paint will need to be stripped from the inside of the hull and frames then coated in epoxy or if I can just repaint the inside of the hull. Alternativly can the paint have epoxy applied over the top?

 

Hello Gooblian.
Myself, I am pretty new to all this, and am half way through (optimistically) restoring a marine ply 30 ft van de stadt yacht. (when I first started, I thought that there was very little to do, but the deeper I got, the bigger the job has become). My boat seemingly had very few problems. The thing with woodrot is that if you are going to take it out, once you start you have to follow it to the end and beyond. And once you have removed a certain amount of a panel or strut, it becomes logical- and financially cheaper, to replace the whole bit of wood, rather than fill with expensive epoxy. From the sound of it, you have quite a bit of rot that you know about, and most probably more that you do not.
I wonder, have you had much experience with this before?
I have no idea about the compatability of epoxy onto the polyester resin of the fiberglass. It might be ok, but someone else in the know will have to tell you. Or read through all the related threads, I am sure it gets a mention.
What I have learnt is that while a one component paint will stick well onto (two pack) epoxy, the reverse is not true. So, I think you will have to strip the inside of the hull back to wood if you do want to epoxy. But I would think that you would probably just want to scrape, sand and repaint inside.
Are you aware of the ongoing debate of whether or not to seal the inside of hulls?
The thing is if you seal it, then you seal in any moisture, and thus the fate of more rot.

To me it sounds like a real lot of work.
It sounds like what you think you have that is still good is basically the hull and a bit of framing. Depending on how bad this is, to strip all this off, to remove rot, to replace wood and recoat could all be a lot harder than starting from scratch, or at least starting from a simple ply boat in good condition that is not already fiberglassed..
I would be interested in a bit more info.

Why do you want to strip the fiberglass off the hull?- is it cracking, delaminating etc.. Why do you want epoxy (I mean I know it is 'the best' but is it worth all the effort?)
Why this boat, and or have you paid much for the boat already?
Is the inboard in good condition and what type?
I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but my own limited and current experience is that for me, every day so far, of working on my boat for 9 days straight, with one to three other people, is that every day the plan changes, and the job gets bigger.
And my boat is not even really that bad. A little rot in the cabin, a little in the deck.
It is just that once you start, it hard to not do it right, not to do a total job on it.

Anyway, after another thirteen hour day in the wind and sun I am buggered.

Good luck with it all. Hans.
P.s check my threads if you are interested in seeing the devolution of my project from a simple seal and paint one to two day job on the water, to a haul out, dry out, and near total deck and cabin refit.
The latest stuff I haven't even posted yet.
I am too buggered and tommorow, well, plans may just change again.

 

Getting there . . .

Hi Hansp77

I guess to start with the boat really owes me nothing, the engine once restored cheaply (something I am experianced with) is worth more than the what the whole outfit cost me.

The reason for removing the fibreglass is really cosmetic, the original job left alot to be desired. The transom was cracked through, and replacement of the deck etc. is also cosmetic, only one frame has dry rot.

After speaking with a local wooden boat restorer have come to the conclusion that I'll re-fiberglass the exterior once sanded, replace the transom and rotted frame, then put in new deck, seats, floor and engine cover. I wasn't aware of the debate over to strip and reseal and sand and paint but in the interests of cost and effort and in light of what you mentioned about sealing the moister/rot in I'm just going to sand and paint.

The main reason I'm embarking on this project to to gather an understanding of wooden boat construction and practice some wood working/epoxy skills (I don't mind making a few mistakes with this one), eventually I'd like to build a boat from scratch but would rather pratice a little first. I also happen to have a total of 3 of the type on engine that was in this boat, one fully restored, one running and another part way through restoration (they are an Australian pre WWII two-stroke).

Thanks for your advise, all the best with your project!

 

Fiberglas on a plywood hull is to give protection from scratches and scrapes and doesn't give much strength, unless a very thick layer. The same is true of regular lumber. Impact resistance on a plywood hull will be greatly increased if the fiberglas is installed on the inside, not the outside of the hull shell.

Other then the improvements to digging up the surface of the plywood on beaches, rock, docks or whatever, it gives little else, unless the whole of the plywood is completly covered or encapsulated. Soild lumber planking can have a like wise increase in resisting damage. Encapsulation runs the risk of trapping water inside the plywood or solid lumber when a scratch goes unrepaired. With little room for the water to exscape and dry the piece out, the area becomes a rot maginet. This is the big argument over using or not using fiberglass and plastics on boats.

Plastics have been used as glue for a long time, but the wooden pieces were free to breath as the boats parts swelled or contracted. Plastics used as a coating, sometimes reinforced with a fabric, lock the mosture content in the wood. At first this is good, but soon the boat begins to loosen her joints and screws from use and mosture gets into the nearly completly sealed wood parts. With only a small exit point, though the point of entry, mosture doesn't stabilize like it would in a non-coated piece. It's dog chassing it's own tail, the cricle gets tighter and tighter until something gives. This is usually a rotten, broken part, because water didn't have a place to go.

Plywood with it's very thin venears pretty much needs to have the protection of fiberglass, but only for what it's good for, which is to keep the thin surface venear from getting torn up, during use. My opinion is that soild wood will try to breath, even if it is prevented from doing so with epoxy, it will eventually as the fasteners and the ajoining pieces move and break the coating. Many woods, especially hardwoods will shead a coating of plastic pretty quick, with just the internal stresses and surface checks that are the nature of them.

Epoxy will stick well to poly, but poly doesn't stick to epoxy very well at all. Poly doesn't stick to itself very well without a lot of grinding and toothing up. Epoxy works best if over raw wood or epoxy. It'll stick to most paints, but the bond it depending on the paint not the epoxy. Epoxy over paint is a very costly way of painting, when a new coat of paint will do as much good. Paint is good stuff, was good enough for many hundred of years and lets the wood breath.

Sorry about the rant, I didn't know what 'bondwood' was and figured it was plywood, but wasn't real sure, so I rambled a little.

 

Gooblian,
That sounds like a pretty good plan.
But from what Hunter said, you might want grind and 'tooth up' the old polyester before you put the new on, rather than sand.
Unlike Hunter I am not so sure that plywood "needs to have the protection of fiberglass," as my forty plus year old plywood hull is doing just fine, and this with only the protection of exterior house oil paint and antifoul.
Of course if you scratch the paint off, then water can get in, and if nothing is done then rot will undoubtably ensue. But at least this is easier to locate and fix than hairline cracks in glass.

What I did want to ask is, what brand of engine is yours. My boat has an old stuart turner 8 hp two stroke, within the same ball park age, and it runs beautifully.

Good luck.

 

Engines

Hi

I have 2 Blaxland 3.5hp, 1 Blaxland 3hp all are single cylinder 3 port 2 strokes and a Coventry Victor 2 cylinder horizontally opposed 4 stroke I think around 20hp.

 

Hi Hans

Read through your post regarding your current project, sound's like fun in a frusterating kind of way! Sounds like the end result is going to be worth it though, I would love to have a sail on her if you ever bring her to Adelaide. I currently sail out of the RSAYS on a 36 and 40 footer, one day I'll upgrade from my stink boat to something a litlle more graceful.

 

Another question actually, what timber should I use for transom, replacement frames and deck structure. Current timber on frames is 25mm thick unsure of what was used, transom seemed to be a single slab around 1200x600x25mm. I'm not after the best quality just something that will do the job, wouldn't mind something a little more decorative for transom though as I wan't to leave the natural wood exposed (covered in epoxy of course).

 

It all sounds very interesting Gooblian. I would reccommend Gaboon Ply as it is strong and a little lighter than other varieties, which with a 14ft boat is going to make a difference. Im not entirely sure what you are proposing but from what I did understand you are going to strip the "plastic" off the ply? Sorry to state the obvious but in this case I would reccommend keeping moisture levels at an absolute minimum for the period of the works, so as to prolong the life of your ply.

When you fit the ply, if you use a mix of resin and bubble/fibres as a glue then you will need to drill holes in the transom board about 3/4inch to ensure that there is no air between transom board and original glass. Of course you may not choose to go this way...

Its all VERY SIMPLE to do. Dont be daunted. If you can work hard and are good with your hands you will breeze thru it!! and probably enjoy it.

 

Hi Gooblian,
It certainly has been frustratingly fun.
As much as the job was getting bigger every day, this has thankfully since stopped.
We are just about ready to start putting it all back on.
Timber and ply have been bought, all the wood to be removed has been cut out, the epoxy's and preservers and fillers etc. are ready and waiting, the nails and screws are on their way, the paint waiting, etc, etc.
While we didn't really have to go to all this effort, and could have done a quick little patch job, in the end I think it will be for the best, will tie us over for years to come, and has really allowed us to get to know our boat.
The main problem remaining has been the cursed weather, and time.
As I study full time at uni, I have been trying as hard as I can to get the work done in the easter week off (while totally ignoring my academic workload). Rain and wind has done its best to fight this desire.
Our days at the boat usually involve (just as today has been) an early morning rushed drive to the yards to de-tarp the boat, followed by some mad working, productive or destructive, before another cold front or change blows through with sideways rain and all the flapping tarps and flying ropes and screaming for help and at each other and tying knots and pulling lines and cold wet drives home to eat takeaway and try it all again the next day.
Lots of fun.
But seriously she is going to be lovely by the time we are finished.

As this is our first boat, and as our level of sailing skills could be described as amatuer at best, it might be a bit of time before we make it over to Adelaide. But if we do I will give you a buzz.

We heard another interesting story about her today, a freind of the old owner was telling us how once about ten years ago, the old owner and his freind were sailing to king Island, and they got caught in the bass straight in 80 knot winds! The guy telling the story said that the fastest wind he had been in was 40 knots, and this was cause enough for some rather desperate prayers to a god he may not even have believed in.
80 knots... no thank you.
But at least we know that our little Altair can survive such horrific conditions.

Best luck with yours,
and if you can,
post us a pictue or two.
I like to see these other projects out there, see the work and the transformation.
Hans.

 

Here's a couple photo's of my engine and the begining of my boat restoration . . .