River Roller! Pontoon Boat that Rolls Across the Water!

To be fair, reading this thread and seeing that it has reached 179 replies, a number of forum members have spent their time to look at what you have presented, give you any remotely similar examples they know of, and respond to your idea and give their thoughts on its feasibility. Your idea is very different from what others have seen work or conventional wisdom, and what you have presented is very conceptual. What would be considered as working, you yourself would define based on your SOR (statement of requirements) which might be created based on defining and prioritizing the goals in your first post.

More than one member has suggested your time would be best spent building a model to test. This is probably the best advice at this point for you to explore your concept.

If you can produce a model that shows potential, then there will be some data to really discuss and it will probably produce a much more interesting thread.

 

MLT, why do you need everyone's approval on a design that you admit no one knows how to analyze? You are dealing with folks who have made a living based on conventional boat forms. Pointy front, some sort of keel or deep vee in the middle, flat in the stern and it doesn't matter if it's power, sail or catamaran. One or two primary sources of propulsion. Your design and concept are totally unconventional. You brought up Tesla in comparison to the average car. Last time I looked at a Tesla it had four wheels and looked like a conventional car! Not one of these-



There are people on this forum who have forgotten more about boat design or construction than I will ever know. I am an Electrician professionally and back yard weekend boat tinkerer. I can't help you with your solar system. I have only done one solar system for a school (300 panels) and as far as I'm concerned, installing them sucks. It's all manual labor and very little wiring. Have no interest in doing another one.

In my honest opinion, common sense tells me your idea is a failure. I can imagine your trantoons, macaroons or crab rangoons, whatever you call them spinning like egg beaters until either you run the batteries dry or it digs itself a hole in the water from all the cavitaion and sinks. Although this thread and it's replies have been somewhat entertaining and my points in this post somewhat smart-assy I am not actually interested in a pissing match where we try to eviscerate each other page after page like some other forums.

That being said I can offer one suggestion for your design. Instead of several toons I would suggest doing a model with only one in the front and one in the back for your propulsion. In between employ a barge like bottom. in between, which could be used entirely for buoyancy. Perhaps the front, a smaller diameter than the back and the bottom sloped back slightly to give some lift? Don't know if this violates any other designs out there (above my my grade). Just a thought, good luck.

 

It comes across that you think everyone wants you to fail, I don't see it that way, People are asking questions about specifics of your plan, about your plan to overcome certain obstacles that that have held back other people with similar ideas and designs.

Your claims.

"More efficient than a prop". In what way, just because you can make this craft move at 3mph for 15 minutes doesn't make it efficient, there's more to being efficient than not just using a fossil fuel. Other people have used solar/battery power to move a boat before, people aren't saying that can't be done.

"Handles fantastically at high speed" (you mentioned 50mph). What do you have to show that this craft will handle well at 50mph. At those speeds you are typically either cutting through the water, or raised above it so the unevenness of the surface doesn't upset the boat. Your craft requires full contact with the water's surface.

"10 hour recharge". You need to know the power needed, battery type, charging method required and solar panel size to do this. This can only take place during the day, once you've used the boat for that day you're done, for maybe even a couple of days. This aspect of it should be easy to research.

"Travel on solar panel power only" What available space do you have to mount panels, how much power is going to be needed? If you don't have enough space for panels you won't be going far. And with all the mechanisms needed to drive the rollers you'll be using a good deal of power, so the panels will need to be large.

These are only a few of the questions that need to be asked and researched prior claiming it will work as advertised. Don't be offended when people ask the obvious questions.

I posted links that show drive systems as similar as possible to what you plan to do, they aren't the same, but show the limitations these people found with their designs. How do you plan to over come these limitations? I don't ask this as an insult, it would be very interesting to see if you can overcome even some of the obstacles in your path.

 

Fair enough. Yes this is highly conceptual at this point. I think that despite being conceptual it is fairly clear that most of my claims should easily translate from concept to reality. Will it be able to tread water. Yes. Will it be able to tread on land to some degree. Yes. Can it be solar charged. Yes. Can it be electrically driven. Yes. Can it eliminate the need for a trailer. Yes. Can it eliminate the need for a dock. Yes. Can it eliminate the need for any external fuel source. Yes. Can it be efficient? Maybe. Can it be fast? Yes. Can it be quick? Maybe. Can it be versatile? Yes. I can go on but whats the point? I think if you go through the list I initially laid out the majority easily translate into reality.

I am building a model. I have 10 trantoons successfully printed. BTW PLA filament is far suerior to ABS. No errors whatsoever using the PLA filament. I am now working on the mounts, bearings, axles and frame. My goal is to start posting data within three weeks.

I think that there is much very realistic potential to discuss here. I just wish more would acknowledge it. Somehow I think that even when it comes rolling up a boat ramp many of you will still not accept it.

 

Well you read my mind to some degree. It has struck me lately the futility of debating this here. If it was completely futile I would have stopped. Occasionally there are people who have contributed helpful design detail. One fellow suggested using discs at the end of the trantoons and then proceeded to call me names that the moderator had to edit out. That has to be my favorite. Your suggestion has been presented before and will be accommodated into my prototype. Though not like you think.

One other useful aspect to this is I get to sharpen my teeth. If I had not participated here and ran into a traditional boat designer the would have eaten me alive. Now I know exactly what to expect and easily frustrate them. That's pure gold there!

 

Thanx. Very decent post. You are putting words in my mouth.
I believe that this might be more efficient than a prop and hull combination. While I think this may still be possible, it may not be probable.

I believe that there is potential to handle very well at high speeds is here. I don't have any proof yet. But I imagine that a craft that can grip the waters surface has the potential to be more stable than a hull skipping across the water.

Yes my preliminary calculations indicate that this should be able to recharge within 10 hours of decent exposure to the sun. Keep in mind I am also suggesting that parking in a current or wave action can also recharge the batteries.

You know that if you look at my original post there are many claims that easily translate into reality. The vast majority are an almost certainty. I'm not offended, but disturbed by the lack of acknowledgement of the potential here. I honestly don't think even one post has acknowledged that the majority of my claims are valid.

 

Would like to leave this thread open, but let's please not make it a thread where people are taunted or intentionally frustrated.

Your concept is so different from anything which has been successful to date, and your goals are so large and difficult to achieve to date, that it probably is futile to go back and forth arguing whether this is obvious and easy or difficult or impossible, more than already has been done in the thread. It's also probably unlikely that someone will have enough interest to build a model or do elaborate calculations to try to prove your idea wrong, and it's much more enjoyable, rewarding, and fun for you to build a model to try and prove your own idea right.

The best way to have a thread that becomes interesting would be to focus on testing a model and then have something to really talk about and spark peoples interest. Good luck and have fun.

 

Hmmm. I have challenged all here to help. I came here for help. I have not taunted without first being taunted. I agree, lets keep it an open minded, and constructive debate. I'm in.

 

Hello All, Here are some links to aid in my proof of concept and to give you all something to chew on.
First is a lifting paddlewheel that allows the craft to ride on the waters surface.
The lifting paddlewheel : a non-buoyant wheel enabling a high speed wheeled amphibious craft to run on the water surface https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/handle/10092/8250
Second is the application of a paddlewheel to a high speed craft
http://www.marinepropulsors.com/smp/files/downloads/smp11/Paper/FA3-1_Harte.pdf
Both of these articles are very compelling evidence that the River Roller concept will work.

I have 10 complete trantoons and am assembling a frame. I hope to have a simple prototype soon. My prototype is 1/12 scale. Should my speed expectations be 1/12th? At 1/12th scale what would be considered planing for a 24"x10" craft?

Any assistance is appreciated.

 

Well it certainly looks like there is already enough evidence to show it could work.
Going to be hard to get a patent though.

I've been wrong before, this won't be the first time - if you can duplicate the previous work.

 

He has declared that he already has a patent pending, just doesn't seem interested in providing that number ???

 

True, but that's just nit picking after seeing the 1976 doctoral thesis.
A lot of this is just * Making an outrageous statement to get attention.

 

In this day and age of patent trolls and lawyers who can beat up yours I'm not sure it's wise to even say you've got one pending except when and where absolutely necessary.

 

Does that mean you will vote yes that it will work?

Yes my patent claims get narrower all the time.

 

The paddlewheels in these papers do not have solid cylinders in the center. That is a very important difference from your proposal and fundamentally changes the flow around the paddles. I discussed this difference in a previous post. River Roller! Pontoon Boat that Rolls Across the Water! https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/river-roller-pontoon-boat-that-rolls-across-the-water.57918/page-8#post-804857

The results of the poll on whether the concept will work will have absolutely zero effect on how it performs.