River Roller! Pontoon Boat that Rolls Across the Water!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Matthew Lee Towne, May 10, 2017.

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Do you think the River Roller will work?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  2. No

    34 vote(s)
    82.9%
  3. Maybe

    6 vote(s)
    14.6%
  1. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Ok, the fact that he didn't sink is a great success for me! Many in this forum are convinced that it would sink to the bottom of the lake. At the same time it does prove the point that improper traction will result in the craft becoming less buoyant. Most of the analysis here boils down to my design going from 0 to plane. At this point I see it as either being instantaneous or a slow process involving varying speeds of the trantoons.

     
  2. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Thank you PAR. The truck is a land vehicle that will also travel on water and does so poorly. I expect the River Roller to be a water vehicle that travels on waterwell and travels on land poorly. I am learning allot here. I hope, and expect, you will also learn something.

     
  3. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Thanx Dave! The scale it 1:12. Though I was surprised to see my buoyancy calculations to be much more than that. Ie a 1:12 scale model would result in 1:100 buoyancy force. Does this sound right?

     
  4. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    I understand the most efficient application of a paddlewheel. If I didn't before. You have all made it clear here. The question I have is can anybody see how inefficient a common displacement hull is? So if you replace a common displacement hull and propeller with this system, isn't there a chance that it might be more efficient? You know my answer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anybody on this forum had addressed this question directly.

    I understand physics. But once again this hasn't been done. We will see whose physics apply.

     
  5. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    PAR! You keep flip flopping between positive and negative! If you are correct, and the application of full power to all trantoons results in the River Roller becoming a submarine the solution is simple. Apply minimal RPMs to the interior trantoons. This will maintain buoyancy while accumulating speed to get on plane. This took me about five minutes to come up with after waterwitches video. Me, a complete novice on boat design. The question it begs is, why can't all of you positive people do the same?

     
  6. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Ok. So does this answer the question of whether it can get on plane? Let's say yes. So if I can get on plane, what then? The whole hull will be working to move this vessel forward. There has to be some potential just in that. Speed? Control? Both? Dare I say efficiency?

     
  7. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    I think that this is clearly proof of concept that this can get on plane by applying enough power to the aft Trantoon. So what if you combine that with interior Trantoons that are traveling at water speed and a front trantoons that are also pulling it forward. Just one scenario where it can work.

     
  8. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Contraption!!!? Really!? So you aren't taking a stand on whether this will work or not? I was sure your original post was that it wouldn't. Come on, get on the River Roller, get off the River Roller, or get run over by the River Roller!

     
  9. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Sorry but I have one more comment here. Embarassment? Is that how you approach things? With the fear that you will be emabarassed? Living in fear is embarrasing. There will be no embarassment or grief here. Only fun and the acquisition of knowledge. Hopefully for the both of us.

     
  10. Kailani
    Joined: Apr 2013
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    Kailani Senior Member

    A displacement hull can move tons of cargo at slow to moderate speed with very little horsepower. Then do you count complexity (cost and maintenance) and space used by the mechanisms ... ?
     
  11. Kailani
    Joined: Apr 2013
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    Location: Hawaii

    Kailani Senior Member

    You have a good sense of humor and aren't afraid to fail. Build an RC model. You can probably do it for less than other people spend on things that don't even make a memory ;) Seriously, build an RC model and see if you can make it work.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  12. latestarter
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: N.W. England

    latestarter Senior Member

    No it does not; buoyancy is based on volume so the ratio is 12 x 12 x 12 = 1728.
    I am contrarian by nature and would like this to work and my first reaction was, why not.
    The obvious thought seeing a wheel or roller is of it moving over land.
    This machine is not rolling, in effect you are dragging cylinders through the water, the fact that they are rotating and providing some propulsion does not change that.
    I agree with Kailani, keep going with a model you should learn a lot.
     
  13. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    A displacement hull form is the most efficient, contrary to your assessment, given the Froude numbers in which it's expected to operate within. The propulsion system or type has very little bearing on the effectiveness or efficiency of the the hull form. The essential problem you have, is attempting to combine the hull volume within the drive system, which is fine in concept, except the 'toons are extremely inefficient as hull forms, resistance is huge and the shapes they make (what the water sees) is very poor for decreasing or limiting the various forms of drag they'll generate. This drag must be overcome, before you can achieve the Fr targets you might expect. Think of this as driving a car over a very washboard like dirt road. You can't get up to much speed as the wheels bounce over the ruts, because they're losing traction each time they grab and skip over the bumps. Spin them fast and it's just a bumpy ride, with limited ability to improve speed. Spin them slow and the ride is easier, but you still grab and release with its application over each bump. The same is true in the water, as the 'toons attempt to climb over the preceding 'toon's wave train, each one is chewing on progressively more aerated flow, that also is climbing up the following 'toons faces, which generates more resistance that must be overcome. It's a dog chassing it's tail thing and you just can't beat this, in the present vision of hull form/drive system.

    I'm not here to agree or disagree with your concept. I find it silly out of hand for many reasons. I have no intrest in "getting on board" with your concept as (again) it's flawed in many aspects. It might make a worthwhile thesis, if appropriately conjectured, but hardly worth the bother, given what is currently understood, about the dynamics of the processes involved. As a mental or engineering exercise, possibly entertaining, but little more, in terms of practicality and efficiency.
     
  14. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Mr Towne, Please excuse any comments I might have made that angered you so. Continue with the search for new ideas even if this does not appear to be one of them..
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017

  15. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    There is an very important difference between Mr Towne's "Trantoons" and conventional paddlewheels which result in a fundamental difference with how the water and paddles interact. Mr Towne's Trantoons have the paddles mounted to a cylinder. Water cannot pass through this cylinder which means there can be little radial flow of water along the paddles, and no radial flow at the intersection of the paddles and cylinder.

    Conventional paddlewheels have the paddles mounted to an open framework. An example are the paddlewheels on the high speed craft as shown in As a result of the paddles being mounted on an open framework water can flow radially along the paddles. With the paddlewheel moving forward water along a paddle will flow inward in the initial phase of the paddle passing through the water, and then the flow will reverse and flow outward during the latter phase of the paddle moving through the water. This difference will have major implications of the efficiency of a conventional paddlewheel with an open framework vs the Trantoon with a cylinder.
     
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