Micro liveabord cruiser

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Silvertooth, Nov 8, 2016.

  1. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

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    See for example the Irish Currach [pic 1] for a leather and nowadays a canvas skin . . .

     
  2. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

    For what you are trying to do, ply and a light skin of glass would be best. You can actually drag that over rocks and drop things in it without holing it. I'd use 1/4 marine fir and 10oz cloth on the outside bedded in epoxy. I pay about $40 /gal for laminating epoxy delivered. The paint on my old garage door cost $90 /gal and I had to go get it. Canvas is okay but way too heavy for this job. If you have a 2.5" pine deck on a 30 ton boat, by all means use canvas and dope.

    You mentioned twin boards. I like them for this application. Twin pivioting boards built into the seats keep the center of the boat open. There can be enough room for a double air mattress or a pair of Thermorest Camprest pads between them.

    The main thing is to keep the boat open. You really need about 10' of open cockpit, 7' can be enclosed in a tent. So if you go with a 13' boat, use a small pram bow, a 20" foredeck, a 16" aft deck, and keep the rest open. That saves a lot of weight. 14" of freeboard at the lowest point is about minimum in lightship condition for cruising. Many small sailboats will have only about 12", but these are just for day sailing. In this size, I'd just make the seats the side deck. If it were a bit bigger, say 14' x 5.5' and 225 pounds, you could have inside seats. Some Mirrors do at 12'.

    The ability to drag a boat up a sandy beach takes some planning. You aren't going to drag a 200# boat. I think my 14' pram's hull weighed 125#, It was painted 3/16 ply with taped seams. It lasted 35 years and was cruised a few thousands of miles on lakes, rivers and along the East coast.

    As far as sleeping arrangements go, Beach camping is best. Second best is using a jungle hammock. Just find an overhanging tree and set it from the cockpit and then climb in and tie the boat off under you. Sleeping in a boat that small basically sucks. I'd rather use it as a lean-to.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. minno
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    minno Junior Member

    what kind of resin are you using Phil? best price I can find hereabouts for laminating epoxy is about $90 US a gallon.

    minno
     
  4. philSweet
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

    The last time I tried some new stuff mostly because they could get it to me quickly, It was about $60 but got here in 2 days. Before that, I used Fasco. It's made in Florida and is one of the older epoxy brands. There are quite a few small mfgs if you dig around. Many can the stuff to suit what you are doing. There is usually an economic quantity for small builders. Fasco is 2:1 mix, so 3 gals packages well and you can add any fillers and tools and all ships in a 4 gallon box. When they ask how much filler I want, that's what I tell them - just fill the box.

    BTW Fasco is 100% solids. You may need to modify it for working in Canada in the winter, or they may have a cool weather chemistry, I don't know. Or they may change the 2:1 ratio a bit to lower viscosity. Nice thing about working with a small operation is that they can customize 1 gallon for you.

    I see it's gone up to $144 for 3 gallons now - Select size and regular hardener http://fascoepoxies.com/Fasco-103-LVX-Epoxy-Resin-System.html
     
  5. Silvertooth
    Joined: Nov 2016
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    Silvertooth Senior Member

    Excellent posts and pictures Phil, thanks for those.

    I like the sound of a large open deck to save weight, and having a good tent for going ashore is best, but if it's one that is well thought out that can also double for an onboard deck tent would be impressive.
     
  6. minno
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    minno Junior Member

    I'm thinking that if I do build a marsh duck I'd probably do away with the aft cabin for more deck space and less windage.
    I'd like to have room to take a few people along and also, I think a hard cabin would get pretty damp and would be really hard to dry out while cruising while a deck tent would be easy to dry out, and like SilverTooth said, could double for a beach tent.

    something else that might work and be really light would be a popup coroplast tent, wouldn't be hard to do with a bit of velcro. line it inside and out with foil survival blankets for a bit of insulation.

    Thanks Phil, It's about half what I'd pay here and 3 gallons is about what I'll need.

    minno
     
  7. Silvertooth
    Joined: Nov 2016
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    Silvertooth Senior Member

    What you said there make me wonder if you could start off with a plywood bottom and everything above that be coroplast? That would be light, but got to work out a way to make it strong enough. That designer called Paul Elkins seems to manage the entire boat out of coroplast. But he could never take it to sea.

    I wonder what is the thinest lightest ply with the least amount of best quality Matt and epoxy?
     
  8. minno
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    minno Junior Member

    corroplast isn't all that easy to work with, about the only thing that'll glue it is CA (aka superglue), if you get the right kind and prep it properly, as I recall that's flashing it with a torch, have a look at RC plane sites, they use it allot.
    you might get away with using wood as high as the deck and then put in sturdy frames to provide structural support around the mast, I wouldn't take it to sea though.

    I've seen 1.5 mm luan online, but you have keep in mind that epoxy weighs about 9 pounds/gallon or 40.5 lbs for the 4.5 gallons the plans call for, and then there's the weight of the cloth as well.

    minno
     
  9. Silvertooth
    Joined: Nov 2016
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    Silvertooth Senior Member

    Thinking about the cabin of the para-duck, instead of making out of wood and cutting most of it out to make plastic Windows, why not make the entire thing out double wall plastic sheets. Then I got to thinking, these roofs of conservatories are easy strong enough to walk on. Could the entire hull be made out of it? It's basically a stronger version of coroplast.

    http://www.totalplastics.com/products/68

    Following these plans of the Gorfnik exactly, but instead of ply use twin wall plastic sheets. I think the bottom would need to be a little flatter, I'm not sure how much of a curve these sheets will take, but I love this paraduck, but even out of the thinnest ply it's still too heavey to launch and retrieve some of the river banks I want to sail from. I also want to be able to tow it behind a bicycle so lightweight is top priority.

    I love this design. It's just finding a way to make it even lighter .....?

    Gorfnik’ Free Building Plans (Download page for the PDF – 6.3MB)
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8dto6a1kqilrvp/EDITED GORFNIK PLANS 9-6-2015.pdf?dl=0

    http://bills-log.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/gorfnik-paraduck.html
     
  10. minno
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    minno Junior Member

    I've messed around with coroplast, made outriggers for my dingy, then I got started on wooden ones after I used them once.

    the trouble with it for hulls is that it sags with very little pressure which I would think would completely mess up the aqua-dynamics of the hull, it would take as much weight of wood to support it against sagging that it would weigh just about as much.

    poly carbonate is good against pressure, but it's pretty brittle and can't be bent at room temperature.

    also, think what might happen if you hit a rock with a boat made of either material.

    maybe look into doing fiberglass over a foam mold for the hull and flotation, and wood or plastics for the rest.

    minno
     
  11. Manfred.pech
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Manfred.pech Senior Member

    Silvertooth, O.K. you want to build a GORFNIK. But - did you notice all the drawings, the good ideas of Don Elliott (+) and the discussion in Yahoo Groups Smallboats (you must subscribe to be a member) about "Squeeze Box" ?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Silvertooth
    Joined: Nov 2016
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    Silvertooth Senior Member

    Ma fried, that squeeze on looks very interesting, have you got a link? Did any get built? I can't seem to find plans for it or anyting.

    Just from you picture I can't see enough about it, does it sail well?

    The main thing I'm looking for is very lightweight, to be able to tow behind my bicycle. I would like the largest lightest weight possible.
     
  13. Silvertooth
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    Silvertooth Senior Member

    Yes you're right, now I think you can't beat plywood and epoxy, with a tiny bit of glass Matt on the very bottom.

    The only thing that may beat it is when 3D printed Carbon fiber small boats are being mass produced. But that is at least another 5 years away, maybe ten.
     
  14. Manfred.pech
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    Manfred.pech Senior Member

    The origin is here: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/00/DM2000/columns/dreamboats/squezebox.htm
     

  15. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    rasorinc Senior Member

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