Folding Schooner as First Boat?

They are a terrific boat under sail and power. Here in aus they are still really popular because they tick so many boxs. Maybe not the most modern looking boat but thats only because the design is so good it would be hard to improve.

 

Also not the most modern building method, so it's on the heavy side, compared to others in her class and costs more too, because there's so many additional parts associated with a plank over frame build, compared to taped seam.

 

As Par suggests, there are more modern, easier to build Trailer Sailer designs than the Hartley, but I think you would get a lot more value out of a trailer sailer than the schooner.

The foldable schooner gets very limited use, as it has no protection from the elements, and is extra work to assemble for each sail , and sailing performance is not a joy except perhaps on a reach. Its also very unsociable, as the crew are spread out along 30ft of boat trying to keep it trimmed. you wouldnt want to spend an afternoon fishing from it, or have an afternoon siesta out of the sun.

I have never heard any good comments about the schooner except to say how 'interesting' the design is.

 

Hartley is an easy build and I doubt if there is a lot of difference in cost to the home builder. There are good reasons why they are still so popular and what other boat that size compares to them for all round versatility. They plane under sail and move along at a good clip with an outboard. Par always tells people the hull is a low cost part of a boat build but then writes off a sof due to weight and expense. I think watson and par are wrong on this subject but each to his own.

 

When I look at the Hartley TS16 and think about all of the stages of construction, it makes me think about the first boat that I considered which was the Jarcat 5 (also Australian). This sits well with my club because they primarily race Hobie catamarans. This also gives me easy access to masts/booms/sails since the Jarcat 5 can use a modified Hobie rig. I really did want to go with a Jarcat 5 for the longest time, but in order for it to fit in my garage with a slight clearance on each side i'd have to reduce the beam very slightly (about 5" / 12.7cm). The fact that it uses 4mm ply which is thinner than most other boats might take a good chunk out of the construction price for me since all of my plywood would be imported.

pics: http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/glendale/sail-boats/jarcat-5-catamaran/1081491611

I was the most excited about the Jarcat 5, but I lack the know-how to reduce the beam so I started looking elsewhere. In my amateur eyes, I'd take 2.5" from each side of the centerline of the boat between the hulls (below the forward windows). This would cause me to have to do the same to all of the associated frames and planks as well as the jib track, and maybe even the mast stay lengths. Would the mast height and sailplan also need to be modified by the same percentage or is 2.5" out of 94.8" not enough to have to bother? It's questions like these that caused me to reconsider.

How would you all rate Jarcat 5 (with very slightly reduced beam) vs Hartley TS16 construction vs Bolger Folding schooner for a first build?

 

It's all about what you're comfortable with and budget. A plank on frame build requires stringers, frames, structural floors, etc., none of which are typically necessary in a taped seam build. This saves several things, besides the cost of the extra materials. You don't have to cut, coat or install any of these pieces, which is a big savings in time, money and weight. As far as skin on frame, well these are limited to very small craft and I don't bother with these types of design much, nor offer much in terms of opinions regarding them, so I'm not sure what Brendan is getting at there.

The Hartley 16 might be the cheapest build, though likely with the most pieces to cut and fit. This is simply because of it's size and build method. Close behind is the Jarcat 5, with less pieces, but with more hulls, probably a little faster of a build too. The Bolger is two 15' boats, including rigs, though a much simplified build method, because there's two of everything . . .

 

I would love to work with planks because we have a lot of small local sawmills, and lots of local Eastern White Cedar and Tamarack as well as the other stuff, so it would be fun to build something with local wood. So it would be cheaper than plywood, by the pound that is, if you wanted a chunky design like a more traditional banks dory versus something lighter and faster. It would be fun also to walk through the woods and pick out a spar. Good excuse to go for a walk in the woods.

Who has seen the wind?
Neither I nor you.
But when the leaves hang trembling,
The wind is passing through.

Who has seen the wind?
Neither you nor I.
But when the trees bow down their heads,
The wind is passing by.

Christina Rossetti, 1830 - 1894

 

Rossetti was blind. I see the wind all the time.

In most "plank on frame" builds, the planks are plywood, not solid timbers. Of course there are many older designs, such as though on the Atkins site, where real solid timber planks are employed, if you want this route. The reason for plywood is it's dimensionally stable comparatively, to solid planks. This means you don't need to caulk the seams like you would on a timber planked carvel. You'll still need to seal the seams, but different, more water tight methods are used.

 

Jarcats have a lot of support. Probably not much difference in build time because you have to do two hulls ( not insignificant) , but you end up with a lot more usable boat. For a beginner, might be a bit adventurous.

Dont forget, you can store a boat on an angle to make the most of your storage - used often to cram a boat into a container, or tow a wide cat on a trailer

Where the hell would you build though ? You need a good metre all around a boat when building, and that grage sounds a bit small.

Just for interest -
http://www.selway-fisher.com/PCup16.htm#YNX

 

Sorry I meant ply on frame. I thought that skin on frame was plywood.