Folding Schooner as First Boat?

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Vvortex3, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Vvortex3
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    Vvortex3 Junior Member

    Hello,

    I have somewhat settled on a boat that I want to build: The Bolger Folding Schooner. The thing is that I have no boat building experience, only experience working at a boat yard for a short time as a teenager, and experience restoring 4 fiberglass sailing cruisers.

    I received the book "Bolger Boats" a few days ago and read through the section about the folding schooner to quickly find, to my horror, that reading boat designs is a skill unto itself. After much Googling and Youtubeing I started to have a basic idea of what was going on in the designs. The thing is that it does not elaborate much on the actual construction process other than to say that "it's the same as the old flat-iron skiffs."

    This left me to ponder if I was getting in over my head. Then I came across an older book "Boatbuilding For Beginners (and Beyond)" in which there is a very in-depth guide on creating a flat-iron skiff (with pictures and step-by-step hand-holding). I'm now wondering if it'd be feasible to use Bolger's design and the process lined out in this book to build a Folding Schooner as my first wooden boat project.

    As a side note: Yes I'm aware of the decent list of modifications recommended to this boat and I've been communicating with a couple previous builders who have been very helpful giving me pictures and diagrams of things like their improved sailplan, etc.
     
  2. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Have you bought the plans?
    They might give you a great idea of how to build the boat.
    Paysons books on building Bolgers boats might also help.

    This is about the only Bolger boat I ever wanted to build and sail.
    I hope you let us watch the build if you do go ahead.
     
  3. Vvortex3
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    Vvortex3 Junior Member

    Ok, here goes my dumb question of the year: I have the book which includes the 3-page boat design (although you need a magnifying glass to read it) and many notes about each piece of the design diagram. Is this not the same thing as the "plans" ?

    Here is a decent preview of the book I am referring to: Boatbuilding For Beginners (And Beyond)
     
  4. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    We all start there.

    No.

    Every set of plans I have (small boats), have full size prints of sections or plywood planks OR they have a table of "offsets" which are the geometry of the shape of the boat.

    There are lots of boat building books which describe how to "loft" or develop the shape full size from a table of offsets.
    Here is one online description from a well known designer.
    I don't know how it would be graded for clarity, etc.
    http://www.dixdesign.com/lofting1.htm
    You can find lots of references by searching "table of offsets for boat building".
    There also were a bunch of forum threads on the subject.

    More people will be along with their favorite books for learning the subject.

    If you were looking to build a kayak I would suggest Nick Schade's book The Strip Built Kayak Cheap at about $20 at clcboats.com or here http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/information/products/books or at Amazon.
     
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    It's very difficult to build a boat from mini plans printed in a book. You just lose way too much detail and you can't scale things off them accurately.

    In the end, I think what you need to hear is that the Bolger Folding Schooner, is not a got boat to cut your building teeth on. It's a 30' project, really two 15' boats and considerably more than the average novice can comprehend, as a first project success possibility. This also isn't an easy boat to sail, so reconsider and think about something smaller.
     
  6. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    I would start with something under 16 feet, or even half that.
    Consider also building a scale model first. You can learn a lot from this.
     
  7. Vvortex3
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    Vvortex3 Junior Member

    Where could I even obtain the full sized plans for the Folding Schooner?
     
  8. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

  9. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Yes, that's who i contacted for other Bolger Plans.

    Amy Payson :hhpayson@midcoast.com

    Phone 207-594-7587
     
  10. Jamie Kennedy
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    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    Thanks for that. Seems like a very interesting fellow.
    Good to see his wife Amy is keeping things going.

    Nice write up here...
    http://www.riverstouch.com/Dynamite.htm
     
  11. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Bolger's books contain the plans and offsets in reduced size, not "study" plans with missing details. The "full size" plans are not boat size, but rather are the size which Bolger drew. No need for a magnifying glass. Bolger's plans for plywood boats usually have the plywood panels shown "expanded" as flat panels, and he would tweak the designs to minimize the number of sheets of plywood required.

    Consider buying one or several of Payson's books and building one of the flat bottom skiffs as a first project.
     
  12. Vvortex3
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    Vvortex3 Junior Member

    The Bolger book that I have does not include any sort of arrangement of panels planned out to show me how many sheets of plywood are needed. I'm wondering if there are more details like that in the full sized plans sold by Payson.
     
  13. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Dynamite's plans aren't full size, but to a specific scale, such as 3/4" to the foot (or whatever). A full plan set is the obvious choice, particularly for a novice builder. A set of offsets and some general guides are all I need to build a boat, but I have over a hundred builds under my belt, so not a new thing. You'll need all the help you can get with the plans, possibly a building book or two as well. Again, I can't emphasize enough that taking on a small yacht as a first project typically means that 99.9% of the time, the novice will not complete the project. Maybe you're the exception to this rule, but the odds are quite steep. This isn't a small boat, nor an easy project. The work isn't especially hard, but the scale and scope of a project like this, are usually overwhelming. You will require crew to sail her or simply expect to capsize regularly - your choice.
     
  14. Vvortex3
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    Vvortex3 Junior Member

    The crew is taken care of as this boat would be for use with friends at a local sailing club. I looked over the instructions for the build of a flatiron skiff and it doesn't seem overly intimidating to me. The Bolger book says that an experienced person can build this in about 150 hours. I imagine it would take me much longer. I will look over the reading you are all recommending before buying any wood just to be sure. I'm open to suggestions for other more ideal boats that are:

    Trailerable
    Less than 15 feet long
    Sail
    Can carry 4 passengers
    Beachable
    Less than 750kg

    When I looked around, the folding schooner seemed to be one of very few that fit the criteria. The Jarcat 5 actually also fits these criteria but the default design is slightly too wide for my garage and also it's more costly to build as far as I can tell.
     

  15. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Nothing but a tub fits 4 people and less than 15 feet.

    I had 4 people on a Hobie 14 once, good thing there was no wind since it was just barely floating.
    You could get 4 people in a Lido 14 (just for an example) but it was uncomfortable, dangerous and slooooow.

    Do you need under 15 feet because of available places to part the boat?
     
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