Small Tri's under 20', any mention of foils is banned..

For a 25 foot cruiser I'd want to build a Nicol Clipper, excellent shallow water capability and remarkable sea record. The amas are more immersed than modern boats but that keeps draft down while helping with the payload.

Under 20 feet a beach or cove camper is more realistic, something like a trimaran canoe yawl for me. The challenging choice there for me would be between sweeps and a sliding seat or pedal power for the calms.

 

There isn't an ideal boat, there is only the boat you build, or I guess buy. I am more interested in the micro cruisers because it is the most interesting set of compromises to me. And in the 16-21 foot range, I think the trimaran is still an exciting cruising boat, but very hard to get right.

Racing boats are always interesting due to the competitive circumstances they operate in, but 20 foot trimarans are fast, and they have been winners when allowed to compete, since everyone is getting wet, you can pare them down to what speed needs. It is always hard to beat the other guy, but it doesn't seem like an unreasonable exercise having a trimaran for the purpose. It is something close to genius,however, to jam 4 berths, or whatever in a folding design that actually developed a fair number of followers, inside 18.5 feet of boat.

In the plywood plans I see these days, there isn't that much innovation. Are we really so far past what the Gougeon, Hughes, or Farrier did. I don't see it. I do think Kendrick has advanced things a little, in offering sophisticated designs in a tough as nail plywood format, with an easier to build than some, folding mechanism. But I have never seen one in the water, and I don't know them first hand.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuYzZkeNDcU

That's mom to Windward, looking cold, and the 4 year old reciting the wind in the willows. Kurt Knows what kids want. Well... Let's just say.

One thing I find is that most people look at the sail plan on this boat, and their first question is why is it so small, and that is without seeing the dropcloth quality execution I have it in. As far as kid friendly is concerned it still blows it along a little. So it really doesn't mater how big you make the cockpit, if the sail plan is enough to launch your boat like a trident missile, then the family may have some misgivings.

There is an 18 footer out there that uses the same rig that is on my boat; weighs the same as my 24; is 3 feet narrower. When that design came up here, the guy building it wanted a rig a lot larger than the one it was designed with. Often when one sees a lineup of boats by a given designer, the proportions of the parts are pretty similar throughout the size range. But when you half a boat in length, scale wise the sail plan will be twice as large as it was on the larger boat, relative to displacement. So I wonder about that. Larger race boats may have rigs 50% taller than waterline length, but on a small boat that would be adding a lot of power to a design that is probably overpowered as it is.

 

Its interesting to sit back and watch this thread over a couple of days. There's still no real consensus on what the type of boat we all want is. I guess thats down to human nature and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Certainly for me, whats out there and being bandied about in the home build is old hat and looks pretty dated to say the least. Where's the rounded modern lines that are going to attract modern young families. Kids are just not going to like to go sailing in things like the Patterson boat, it aint modern, it aint cool and is probably not a good advert to encourage young families. It probably sails really well and maybe fast but it just aint cool in comparison to say the Pulse 600. Sorry not wishing to offend but it is a very old design and it shows it.

Corley bought up the Clissold design, now there's a start of what a small Tri could look like as a home build www.tcdesign.co.nz/TC_Design/Sport_Multihulls/Pages/TC_666.html#0.I. I do know he's working on a slightly smaller Tri as well, a Weta big brother

The Tritium http://www.paolobisol.com/tritium720_en.htm is another example of that 21 to 22 foot boat, Eric La Rouge with his Pulsar range is just outside the size range as well. So is that the designers connundrum then, at 21 feet you can get cabins of some size in but at 20 feet it limits you to a smallish Cuddy.

So why go the smaller route then, I would say for exciting day sailing and racing. That means a whole different approach, light weight hulls, larger rigs and smaller cuddys.

 

P21

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I think you're very wrong about the Paterson 21-it's one of the most innovative designs around with more room than most 21-22 footers.
It's designed with a wing mast and the clean lines give it great aerodynamics. I bet it sails very well and would "charm" a small family including the kids.

 

As I've said " beauty is in the eye of the beholder " yes it may cram in maximum sleeping space and maximum forward cabin space but at 20 foot, why wouldn't you just go and build a 24 footer that has decent cabins and berths, it wouldn't cost too much more to build and you would have good safe deck space for the rugrats to play on.

I would guess horses for courses and it would seem it tickles a few peoples fancy, I have no objection to that.

 

Fashion often has little to do with function and kids of all ages care more about having fun on the water than the boat they are using.

Self build within reasonable time and expense means skipping fancy moldings. Enough volume for inside accommodation is going to look like volume no matter how you frost the cake.

Something less than 20 feet is pretty much a 2 person boat if you want the slender waterplane for performance. In that size range I'd want to skip folding and go demountable to save weight, cost and increase portability. It is easier to move the smaller pieces individually to and from the beach than trying to drag a 400-600 pound assembly when camping.

 

I haven't seen any mention of Eric Henseval's Sardine run:
http://hensevalyd-english.jimdo.com/multihulls/trimaran-sardine-run-5-50m/

Given that its a French design its only a matter of time until someone there singlehands one across the atlantic.

 

That sardine run is a neat little boat. I like it a lot. Also like this one, the road rash by shayne young, but a bit too big for this thread?
http://www.syasperformance.com/75m-trimaran-plywood.html

 

That's why I have no plans to draw a 24ft cabinned trimaran because at that size you can easily have accommodation for 6 in a catamaran - 4 single bunks in the hulls, 2 in a central cuddy - and still be fast and trailable. Leave the cuddy off if you want to race and fit racing sails on the same mast.

Been there done that many times over the last 35 years.

I also agree, I don't think an under 20ft trimaran can ever sleep 4 people comfortably enough and certainly performance won't be great as the hull will need to be beamy to take the load

Richard Woods

 

Richard, some people just like the motion of trimarans better, especially in the smaller sizes and especially when graduating from mono's.
Smaller Catamarans can't accommodate a double birth, with a central cabin yes but then everything starts getting bulbous and unattractive. Imho.

 

I'll put it this way, I think whilst catamarans can be more practical, trimarans are just more elegant , sexier and inspiring.
Trimarans are for sailors, catamarans are for tourists.

Please don't be offended, just my opinion, somewhat superficial and not based on a lifetime of multi sailing.

 

Condomaran

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I can't imagine anyone buying a 24' anything to sleep six people! Talk about a condomaran.......

 

I'm actually worried you might be trying cloning to get crew after the "double birth" comment Red....

I like the central space and wider hull of a tri....in that size range a bridgedeck cat that connects it all has some windage....Wharram's central tent works but would be a pain at the end of a day.

 

Crew

Recreational purposes only Cav