Infusion Plan

Hi Jorge, yes, i can see why you would use the extra layer of peel ply on the mold side if you needed a peel ply finish but what I don't understand is the extra layer of bag and layer of perf film. I have been just putting the flow media on top of the peel ply, it never comes in contact with the laminate so i never have a problem peeling, I manage the flow media by stapling it in place, ive just been using steel staples as they come out when you peel, i use as few as i can get away with and touch them with a countersink and fill them with unfilled resin as soon as ive peeled, it is also the inside of the panel and also gets buried in paint.

Steve.

 

I used two layers of bag on the bottom - taped to each other - just in case there was a pinhole leak … I wouldn't be able to plug it on the bottom. On top I just used one layer of bag material since I can access that and plug any leaks.

As for not using release film … I can't say how you are getting away with out it, maybe it's a different type flow media / peelply/ core ???

that is why groper mentioned using release film to separate stacked panels, the resin will bond to both panels making a sandwich of the peel ply, it would be hard as hell to get apart.

 

Jorge, I have never actually seen the perf release film but I imagine it to be more of an extruded plastic film with holes in it to allow the resin to get through rather than a woven fabric like the peel ply, please correct me if have this wrong, I suppose I should order some to play with but ive never seen a use for it. If I have it right I can totally see where it would be nessesary for doing the stacked panels as they would be very difficult to separate if separated by just peel ply. My first hands on infusion experience was at a KSS workshop where we laid up panels that represented a full half of a 42 ft catamaran hull without release film so that's what ive been doing. Im certainly not adverse to trying something new to me if it makes sense.
Ive done both VE and epoxy,with both the greenflow and the orange stuff but only used 0.75" and 1" balsa so far but I don't think the core would make any difference with peeling. As for the bag on the bottom, do you not have a proper table? I cant really tell from the photos, that would explain the need for me. I remember you didn't use a table when building your boat. Btw, didn't you buy some MTI hose to try? did you ever try it? I bought some but have yet to try it myself.

Steve.

 

Yeah it's not woven, looks like a simple flimsy drop cloth except for all the holes.

No I don't have a proper table, I have to completely bag whatever I put on it, now I understand why you asked about that LOL! ))

I think somebody with more experience has to shed some light on this ... Can you remove the flow media without removing the peel ply? A lot of times you want to leave the peel ply on to protect the part but you want to get rid of the flow media and the release film makes that easy. I still don't see how your doing it ... maybe your peel ply release coated?

I did try the MTI hose, it works to prevent resin from being sucked up into trap but the resin front will still stall if any part of the front racetracks and surrounds the hose so I think the infusion strategy is more important.

 

Actually im not sure if i have ever removed the flow media without the peel ply but that would make sense in that situation, I think the green would separate but not the orange.
On doing a stack I would expect it to be difficult to separate regardless as you would have hundreds or more little pillars of resin connecting them. Ill weight for you guys to do the tests, other than that I think it will work and save a shitload of time and consumables.

Steve.

 

lol I should have stacked this last infusion.

I had a 2 layer stack of roughly 18"x18" with 2 layers of 17 oz both sides separated by release film and peel ply and it infused no problem. Sorry for lack of pics all I had was a short piece of hose so it's was stuck next to pump.

I still need to make some steps for the platform ... if I have enough infusion resin left over I will stack them and photo it.

 

Yep I'm with Jorge on the perf film... it's hard as hell to remove flow media from peel ply especially when using epoxy. It just makes life easier, not that it's required, and I always leave the peel ply in place until ready to work that surface again in future to keep it clean and ready for immediate Secondary bonding. ..

 

So forgive me for being over 40 pages late to the party, but i have read a good bit of the thread and theres some really great info here. Nice looking boat. When i looked at the original date of the thread it made me feel better about my multiple year long build i have going. Anyways, my question is regarding this infusion stack. I have seen it mentioned previously and seen some pictures. Are you saying that can stack multiple layups with perf release film between them and do multiple layups at once pulling from the bottom to the top?

Like say i wanna layup 3 4x8 sheets of core for bulkheads, could i do all three at once seperated by release film? Does it go something like

Bag
Flow media
Perf release film
Peelply
Glass
Core
Glass
Peelply

which is your typical single layup both sides deal, then over it with

Perf release film
Peelply
Glass
Core
Glass
Peelply

And another for the third
Perf release film
Peelply
Glass
Core
Glass
Peelply

Is that what we are talking about here? And the resin center feeds from the bottom up thru the whole stack? Do you need any additional flow media in the stack between layers, or does the perfed core just act as a media? Seems like this could make for some really efficient panel building for flat parts.

I agree with groper on doing big panels. In the beginning i was glassing huge panels and then cutting them down to size. When i later tried to precut panels to shape it always made for way more work. Cutting glass around wierd shapes and curves, makes for lots of little extra glass scraps. I figured it might save me on some epoxy which is always a hot commodity at my shop, but its funny, when i need a random shaped piece and i find one to use, im always bummed if i have to glass the little part. Im always making things out of scrap honeycomb and foam core, and its way easier if its preglassed. I think I've learned that its just easier to glass big panels and cut them to size. You always find a use for the scrap pieces anyways. If i could wire in this infusion stack i could glass up enough material to build a boat like mine all at once. Talk about efficiency!

 

Yes, i agree, i just have not encountered the situation on the projects i have infused so far where i have needed to leave the peel ply in place so have not needed to remove the flow mesh separately, i can see that the perf film would be needed for this. Is this the typical use for it?

Steve.

 

yep you got the order right ... I know it works pretty easy on a stack of two.

I would use a perimeter feed, infuse inward with the outlet centered top of stack. If it's really long panels in relation to width I would add one or two point outlets down the length.

 

When everyone cottons onto this, I Hope people remember where the idea came from

I think we should call it "gropers panel stack infusion" or maybe simply, the big fish?

 

GPSI lol )

 

http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/new-infusion-regime-for-superthick-laminates

This where i first recall this, a while back. Little differant than what we are talking about here, but pretty similar concept .Seems it is some company trying to sell you their resin, but the idea is cool. If they can infuse like 90 layers of glass stacked 6 inch high all at once, i think it begs the question. How many panels can u really do at once?

This seems like a pretty efficient way to build. Groper, thanks for sharing the good idea, i do think is gonna be something we see more of in the future. Now i just need to figure out how to deal with my vacuum loss due to my elevation. How much pressure are you guys using to pull thru a stack like that?

 

... I didn't think about the heat aspect

I bet you could infuse using a little help from a pressurized bucket.

 

I am going to continue posting pics till the boat is done so this great informative thread can have closure lol.

Anderson deck plates installed. When I drilled the first hole to fit the jigsaw I got a nice hiss of pressurized air that lasted a good ten seconds. Going to have to add a vent before the boat blows up like a balloon!












packing the whole thing up and taking her down to the keys to finish on Monday or Tuesday. Nothing is wired up, left the radio in it's box but you can see when that is in it should look pretty sharp!