Converting our workboat to tugboat.

boat has keel coolers welded on bottom. Long aluminum pipes ( 4 total) that coolant runs through.

Exhaust manifolds also run coolant.

The raw water was added after then exhaust out through rear.

 

other questions

Ok sorry to keep going on.

I would like to build a fly bridge as well to land when bins and machines are on to see better.

the steering in this is morse mechanical. Do I have to go hydraulic to do this? If so can someone "steer" me to what I should order.

Also with the throttle and shift controls. Morse as well. Please see pictures.

Thank you very much.

 

Hydraulic Steering with Cable Controls

Hydraulic Steering is certainly the way to go if you're using the vessel for rudder intensive tasks.

The first thing to find is the stroke - how far does the rudder arm move from the port stop to the starboard - common cylinders are 7" 9" or 11"

You can generate some force with them so its better to get the geometry right than getting an oversize stroke and relying on the stops - just drill the arm to give a pivot point closer to the shaft which will match your stroke exactly.

if you can, arrange for the hoses or pipe to be run uphill all the way rather than up and down arround obstacles - Bleeding will be much easier.

two pipes run to the first helm unit but three are used to connect the two helms.

you need to know your cylinder before ordering the helms - these are pumps and too big or too small is bad

if the pump is too big, lock to lock is fast e.g. 1 and half turns but steering is very heavy

conversely a small helm will give a very light and precise response but you dont want 12 turns from lock to lock.


Hydraulic controls are a PITA and on your size of vessel I doubt you would see any benefit.

You can get a twinning block which takes a cable from each station and outputs to a single control cable (two needed - throttle + gear) or if there is a clean route between the two helm positions you simply add another two control cables to your existing morse levers then route to a second set. Remember to remove the friction from the one in the middle.

 

Morse Cable - Dual Station

Like this

 

I suspect you will discover your rudder is too small when pushing a barge. It was designed to turn the boat. Tugboat and pushboat rudders are greatly oversized for just the boat. They have to turn the barge as well.
An architect can save you a lot of expense and heartache from experimenting.

 

Oversize the system now - cheaper in the long run

You might want to search for Capilano these are the heavier duty / commercial versions of the Teleflex lines - Vetus also do similar range but more likely to find those in Europe. Bank on about 1500 for the cylinder and a grand apiece for the helm units.:!:

Consider talking to West Marine (www.portsupply) for a commercial account - if you spend over 3k pa you get stuff wholesale rather than retail.

PS on the gland drips 1 to 3 drips a minute is fine more often and you tighten A LITTLE.

If launching /recovering daily maybe swap the little plug in the gland for a barbed connector and add some 3/16 clear tubing to above the water level and a 1/4 turn valve - instant bleed - depends on boat some trap air and if thats case youre running the gland dry which will pit the shaft (as will overtightening it).

If the shaft is coming out - once out undo the rubber hose at the stern end and clean - repack gland on bench - inspect hose but use 4 NEW clips ALWAYS

 

Found some Cylinder specs.

This might help, there's also a HC0328 capilano cylinder on ebay at the moment FWIW. 2.5" bore 11" stroke and a displacement of about 44 cu Inch

You'd need the 3.0 to 5.4 cu helms and a smaller style wheel with a knob as it would be about 8 turns.

This would be man enough whatever rudder or nozzle you eventually go with.

 

Hello All,

Andy thank you very much. That was a great reply.

So would I be best to order the same ( or similar) morse controls as the ones already in there?

Also, is the hydraulic steering you suggest power assist or just manual hydraulic?

My buddy has a small tug and his is a manual hydraulic with ships wheel.

 

Manual hydraulic is very reliable and lower maintenance, and uncomplicated. If you ever DO have a problem with it, troubleshooting is simple and obvious.

 

Is there such thing as duel manual steering? Using the same system of cables and u-joint like I have now?

Might be a silly question.

I was thinking a transmission box that both shafts went into and output to the cables?

I do have a clear path from the flybridge down to the underside of lower helm.

 

The engine power, propshaft rpm and requirement for shoal operation are the limiting factors. You said previously that the power is 200 hp, engine rpm is 2800 and gearing is 2:1. With this input, the prop dia (24") is about spot on for the setup, but the pitch has to be reduced in order not to overload the engine.

Here an comparing example, quick and rough:

Existing transmission, propshaft running 1400 rpm, prop dia 24", pitch 13,5", 4 blades, blade area ratio 80 %: possible thrust at 6 knots about 14.8 kN with full engine power (200 hp).

With gearing 3:1 (933 rpm on the shaft) the required prop dia is 30". At 6 knots the pitch would be 18,5" and the possible thrust some 17 kN.

The difference is 15% and is certainly not worth the amount of rebuilding needed. However, with the existing gearing, 24" dia and a suitable nozzle, I would expect at least 18 kN thrust, with the added bonus of a marginal increase of operational depth and protection to the prop.

Depending on the shape of the exit part of the nozzle in your tunnel, there is a slight risk of the propeller sucking air from behind when/if there is a fluid detachment from the upper part of the nozzle at high loading. This is easily corrected with a "cap" over the outlet, ending with a small (½") interceptor.

You may very well start with just a propeller change (the one you have now will overload your engine at towing speeds), and install the nozzle later, but DON'T kill your engine by applying full throttle with the existing setup!

And don't bother the fiddling with wire steering, you will regret it. Go for a decent manual hydraulic directly, but install oversize pipes, because at lower temperatures the hydraulic oil viscosity will increase and increase the steering effort if the pipes are too small.

 

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=691

Above link might help you identify your steering better, so we can better help.

 

I will go to shop and see if I can find exact part number on steering.

and take some more picutres.

 

There are numerous mechanical home built systems, where you could steer the HELM from another location, and the original HELM steers the rudder. Sprockets and chain connecting the two wheels for example.

But you'll be better off with hydraulic.
A steering wheel turning a bi-directional, high volume, positive displacement, rotary pump at each steering station, plus a system of piping and bypasses and valves, so only the pump you are turning is connected in system with ram, a reservoir at top of system, and a double acting ram at the rudder.

You could design and build one yourself. But compared to buying ready made, I doubt you'd save any money, and you'd use/lose a lot of time.
Peace of mind is a valuable commodity. Knowing your equipment is professionally designed, and tried, tested, and proved on other working boats, is one less thing to worry about.
Might be a winter project while boat laid up for ice.

Steerable propellers are also known as "Active Rudders".

If you installed two outboards on the inside stern corners as active rudders, and steered THEM from the upper station, might be your best, simplest solution. and best control over barge. Would only need the throttles doubled stations for the diesel. And of course install the outboard throttles and steering up top. Just leave the rudder lashed amidship when pushing. Tilt up outboards out of water, and steer the rudder from lower station when running light boat.
You don't need huge outboards. 35 to 60 hp each would suffice.

 

You say you're moving 60' x 25' x 4' barges - if they get loaded to the point where they draw 3 foot

that is 4500 cubic foot

0.0283 cubic m to a cubic foot and a cubic meter of fresh water is 1 tonne -

gives a displacement of 127 metric tonnes.

The steering cable you have on there is already not man enough for what you are proposing (even un-twinned) - go 'overkill' hydraulic

that 2.5" cylinder has a piston area of 4.9 inch, less the area of the shaft gives 4.1

and these systems operate at upto 1000 PSI so would push or pull with a force of over 4000 pounds!

Shop around - a used cylinder might be an option - seal kits are very cheap and because they are so strong there will be minimal wear on even a 10 year old unit. Helms on the other hand are not rebuildable - buy at least one new unit (though if the lower position is rarely used a second hand one will give good service and in event of it failing - go upstairs and use the other (you don't lose the whole system)