FRANCIS LEE sails

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by bob perry, May 4, 2014.

  1. Skyak
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Bob,
    I think the reason everyone here is smitten with this boat is it is the best answer anyone has seen to the question "Why would you design and build a new boat?". It has wonderful characteristics. There is nothing like it in production and with the used rig likely not a bad deal.

    The rig and sail plan looks pretty tame. I was wondering about it too but now I know it is a race boat hand-me-down I have to smile. It's sort of like the 60's hot rods that put corvette motors in the lightest chassis they could make. Now I wonder about the jib lead angle -it looks normal but the pointing ability of the boat is more paranormal. Have you tried a barber hauler? I can't help thinking the sheeting angle is defining your pointing.

    When you get a chance could you post a soft core video of the gps boat speed close hauled, then pan around to the wake (or lack thereof), then tack? OOOHHYAH

    Of all the claims made so far the ones I find hard to believe are that the helm does not load up healing all the way to 30 deg -hyperbole? and the owner's wife is happy he built a custom yacht?
     
  2. bob perry
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: Tulalip wa

    bob perry Junior Member

    Sky:
    In up to 30 kts AWS I held the tiller about 15" aft of the tip. I just rested my fingers on top of it ( I think Kim has a good photo of this). I found my course adjustments to keep the boat in the groove required up to 1.5" of tiller movement each side of centerline. I pay close attention to this stuff. But a soft or almost neutral helm is very typical of long skinny boats. My concern was that we didn't have any lee helm. I knew weather helm would not be an issue. We have a gentle weather helm and just enough to make it easy to keep the boat in the groove. Even hard reaching there is never a "load" on the tiller. We have a nice big rudder with about 15% balance area.

    The first rig I drew (see preliminary, early sail plan) featured a distinct hook to the mast above the hounds. Kind of like the old Skerry cruisers. I liked it. The sailmaker hated it. But in looking at my rig the sailmaker noticed how close the dims were to the Farr 40 rig. Kim did some checking around and found two used CF Farr 40 rigs for sale at a very attractive price. This also opened up the chance of getting some super, fancy used racing sails. Unfortunately it turns out a used Farr 40 main sells for around $20,000. Maybe later. For now we have very nice Schatteaur dacron sails.

    Jib lead is just fine and we are pointing extremely well. The boat excells on the wind. If I thought we had a problem there I would try a barber hauler but for now we dont have a convenient place to anchor it so it's not an issue. If I were going to use a barber hauler I'd be inclined to arrange it to haul outboard for reaching legs. We could use that when we are not flying chutes. We will race with chutes this weekend. We can plan our next "adjustment" after we see what happens with the chutes. We have both masthead and frac chutes.

    If the time is right I'll try and get a vid for you this weekend but we don't have any instruments yet. Contrary to many claims we do have an actual wake. It's just very hard to see below 10 knots.
    [​IMG]

    If you look closely I think you can see a "wake" in this photo. We are probably doing about 8.25 knots in this pic.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. KimB
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: Puget Sound

    KimB Junior Member

    Bob's light hand on the helm.....
     

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  4. KimB
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: Puget Sound

    KimB Junior Member

    I spent two years looking all over the world for the "right" boat and could not find it. So I went to my pal Bob and we created it. So far we are both rather pleased with the results. (It helps that he and I agree on virtually all specifics of what we think would be the "right" boat.)

    My wife was concerned with the size of the boat until she went sailing with us. She loves to sail in light to moderate air, but does not like drama on the boat (she does not race). After the first jibe she became a believer. She loves the gentle behavior of this vessel.

    Frankly I am surprised at how smooth the boat is under all conditions we have seen so far. No drama and very nice manners. Very easy to handle.

    One design parameter was to build a vessel that I could single hand. I am a fairly fit 65 year old and I have single handed a number of my vessels over the years. The electric winch in the center of the steering cockpit was added to make sure I can sail this vessel for a number of years.

    Our two sons are in their 40's and sailors. They will use the boat which helps justify the expense of a one off custom boat.

    The process of being very involved in her construction has allowed me to know this boat better than any of my other vessels (I have owned many boats, both sail and power.)

    So far the project is a massive success.
     
  5. KimB
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    KimB Junior Member

    The wake as we pounded to weather in about 20 knots true with the full main and jib.

    And the wake at about 8 knots under power in the ship canal with Shipwright Jordan driving.
     

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  6. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    Hats off to you Bob!

    As an amateur designer, builder with your book being in my collection nautical writings, I don't think I could begin to assume that I could say anything critical of Francis Lee. She is the stuff that dreams are made of for so many people and it has to be ethereal to be out on her. The reuse of an old rig also makes the Francis Lee avant garde with respect to the "greenness" of so many things nowadays. Our society is so throw away that it is so great to see re-life in an older piece of equipment and to see it perform so effortlessly and efficiently.

    A person with your design, build and manufacturing background and experience has such an enormous knowledge base that it is an event to see it's culmination in such vehicle. Boat design and building is more than simply putting nuts and bolts together. There is artistic expression in so many facets of the endeavor. Thanks for sharing with us.

    Ummmmm..... Where is the bar-b-que hanging off the stern rail? :p
     
  7. KimB
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: Puget Sound

    KimB Junior Member

    The major items that were salvaged from other purposes and used on the Francis Lee include:
    Carbon Fiber Mast
    Carbon Fiber Rudder
    Aluminum Boom
    Plastic Fuel Tank
    Plastic Water Tanks
    Gel Cell Batteries
    Wallas Furnace
    Both Asymmetrical Chutes (One Mast Head Light, One Fractional Heavy)
    Anchors and Rode
    Running Lights (Bow Mounted Vintage Chris Craft)

    We like recycling
     
  8. Rurudyne
    Joined: Mar 2014
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    BBQ? Heheh....
     
  9. KimB
    Joined: May 2014
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    KimB Junior Member

    No rails, no life lines.

    One hand for the boat, one hand for the crew.

    No sitting on the rail, we have a nice cockpit for sitting.
     
  10. bob perry
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: Tulalip wa

    bob perry Junior Member

    Kim forgot the radar reflector he got free.
    The first time we sails FRANCIS there was a very loud and annoying "hum" from the aramid backstay. It kicked in about 9.5 knots. It was as loud as a spinning prop. Kim installed the tubular radar reflector and the hum has dissapeared.

    On the "green" rudder:
    Kim and I were looking into having his rudder built locally and the one guy we wanted for the job had never built a rudder before. He was nervous. Kim called Lynn at Westerly Marine in Costa Mesa. Lynn has built a number of my boats and they all have carbon rudders. Kim asked for some help in construction techniques needed for his new rudder. Lynn's response was, "Hey, I have a rudder sitting here that is almost new and just the right size." The surplus rudder came off my 57'er FREE RANGE CHICKEN.

    The owner of FRC was convinced there was something wrong with the rudder. I assured him that his rudder was fine but he wanted a new rudder. We designed a new rudder and the old was was set in a corner of Lynn's shop. The owner of FRC later discovered that he had a rudder bearing problem and not a rudder design problem. But he had his new rudder and he was happy. Lynn offered the old rudder (it was about two months "old".) Kim jumped into his fancy, I call it the Euro bicycle racer, van and drove to Costa Mesa to pick up his new rudder. It's a beauty and weighs 80 lbs.. So far it has worked very well.

    We have no pulpits so no BBQ. I had to twist Kim's arm to install a head. Kim installed a composting head. I bring my own Skagit County Farmer's Co-op black bucket. Just in case.
     
  11. KimB
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: Puget Sound

    KimB Junior Member

    Euro Bicycle racing van

    Good for rudder hauling, bicycle transportation, boat part transportation and all sorts of fun things....I even brought the Yanmar diesel and sail drive home in it.
     

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  12. bob perry
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: Tulalip wa

    bob perry Junior Member

    FRANCIS LEE won it's second race yesterday. First to finish and first on corrected time. Not to bad for a cruising boat.
    We flew the big, masthead chute for the first time so that was fun. We raced with a crew of five and we had a really good day.
     
  13. tdem
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: NZ

    tdem Senior Member

    Congrats on a great design! I've been enjoying your blog too.
    -Thomas
     
  14. bob perry
    Joined: May 2014
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    Location: Tulalip wa

    bob perry Junior Member

    tdem:
    Many thanks. I will update my blog this week with what I think will be the final installment of the Baba story. I didn't initially intend it to be so long but once I started writing a lot of old memories of those projects came back and I thought it best to get the stuff down while I still can remember it. Someday it may be valuable material for someone doing some historical research. Maybe.
     

  15. eyschulman
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Location: seattle Wa USA

    eyschulman Senior Member

    what happened to Sliver?
     
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