Brutal sanding job!

At over $100 a gallon, all the Interprotect products are inferior to straight epoxy, as an effective, low coast barrier coat. Most can by a gallon of epoxy (full retail) for about $60. I checked and Interprotect 2000 is only 41% solids, so . . .

 

Wow. Lots of info to take in. I'm glad to hear about the importance of straight epoxy being used first. That was my initial thought, but too many people (with far more experience than I) kept beating into my skull the solo use of the almighty InterProtect 2000E. Even the fiberglass crew at the boatyard gave me the Interprotect speech when I mentioned 2 layers of West System first. I then promptly left the boatyard, tail between my legs

 

The reason I started going online in these discussion areas initially, was to dispel these types of rumors, preconceived notions and misplaced beliefs in the unsubstantiated or undefensible. There are folks that still think, you should play with the hardener amount in epoxy, to get better cure times and that a solvent wipe will wash off amine blush. These folks are well intentioned, experienced but simply misinformed, so . . .

In most cases all you have to do is pull the MSDS for the product and have a look see at what it actually is. I the case of InterProtect 2000E, it's 41% solids when cured and we know that it's the quality of the initial coating that effectively seals the surface. If this coating is 100% solids, you're hard pressed to get better.

 

Good information. I looked up the MSDS for RAKA, West System and Epiglass and couldn't find 'solids'. Do I need to add up each ingredient name with their percentage to find the total solid %? Or is there a specific ingredient I'm looking for?

If so, each ingredient has a low and a high number...should I stick with the low numbers to play it safe?

Chris

 

Sorry if I confused topic by being less than precise talking about Interprotect 2000e. The OP mentioned this, I was talking of this.

I must 1st state that in my youth I worked in the labs for International Paint. I have seen the numbers regarding barrier properties. I have seen numbers regarding barrier properties/corrosion/anti-osmosis properties for many epoxies from hot twin feed to solvent free to solvent based etc. And also competitors and weird high tech stuff.

I originally stated that the Interprotect 2000 was better for use, for the average Joe.

My point of, mwuh "anger" is the phrase used regarding barrier properties.

Actually everything is a barrier...some barriers are better than others. Chemically almost nothing is 100% barrier. In normal use this is not a problem. You only need "sufficient" barrier.

Interprotect 2000e is EXCELLENT barrier. At 250microns it will protect steel from corrosion almost as good as you can get. Measured rates of water transmission (it is standard ISO test but is also tested with other methods) are as low as you need. On GRP it will/does work as barrier.

The use of solvent in a coating CAN make a coating bad but that is not a fact. It is no more true than saying 100% solvent free is better barrier coat.

Sorry for using the example of corrosion but this is a) more understandable for most people b) is a hideously strongly measured and controlled area of technology. Most, almost all, primers on steel has solvent in them. It doesn't stop make oil rigs rust to bits.

100% solvent free cannot cure 100%. Solvent helps resin systems cure to higher degree. The solvents are chosen to not be negative in final film.

The clever addition of pigments increase barrier properties over pure resins in most normal cases. A prime example is primers for steel eg oil rigs. The paints are pigmented. Pigmented for a variety of reasons but a major reason is increase in barrier properties.

The reason the use of pure resin is recommended on exposed glass is to minimise the risk of wicking on the glass ie solvent gets trapped on the size used on the glass which MAY then cause osmosis under the system. The evidence of this risk is mixed...it depends on the glass size and how it was originally well wetted. There are people who do osmosis repairs with paint on exposed glass and they have had no problems. The added benefit of resin on the exposed glass is also that you can wet it out good as you see any dry patches. The worry with paint over glass is that someone will just roll on gently and not wet out any dry areas. The story is risk minimisation as opposed to large risk.

I stand by my previous comment. Interprotect 2000E is a barrier. (and in lab better than equivalent thickness than West etc.

ps volume solids mean nothing in this subject. If you applied 10 coats of thinned Interprotect 2000E or 5 unthinned the results would not be noticeable (overcoat times, temp dependent). The higher solid products often give you more risk of failure as you get into this whole problem of degree of cure and there are a load of other paint chemistry factors involved, and I am talking about average molecular size and volume of the curing agent etc. It is interesting but complicated to explain. eg polyethylene has almost ifinite molecular size so it is almost impossible to dissolve/move. 100% solid curing agents are small (this is why they are fluid). The smaller the "bits" you have in your system the more problems you can get

 

Actually interprotect is almost 100% solid WHEN it is cured...ie once the solvent evaporates Unlike most 100%solid epoxies which are loaded with benzyl alcohol in many cases. This benzyl alcohol is not classed as a solvent for the simple reason that its evaporation rate is so slow as to be not much of problem in most cases. However if you put a film in oven at 200c for a while you would see weight loss due to evaporation. And also weight loss due to sublimantion of low molecular weight amine in uncured film....but of course heating film promotes cure thus masking this loss. However it does mean that the resin matrix is not as barrier proof as some people like to imagine.

 

The use of a vehicle isn't necessary to permit something to cure! We can get into a debate of the microscopic physicality and realities of water proofing (molecule pressures, size, etc.), but this would be a highly technical discussion, well over the heads of most.

2000 and 2000E are very good primers, if used over certain substrates or other coatings, but alone it's permeability isn't very good. Without getting into centrifuge retention capacity figures or other bits of physics that need lengthy explanations, it's probably just best to accept the MSDS title bar declaration of it being a primer, not a sealant.

FWIW, paints can and do use pigments, but can and do use dies and particulates as well. Some use a combination, others solely rely on a single element.

Coatings can be a very difficult subject to discuss. There are so many variables, that each product needs to be closely looked at, for suitability. For example vapor transmission rates that are acceptable on steel, can't be tolerated on other materials. This is one of the reasons there are some many coating types. Recent (relative) innovations have caused a one coating solves all issues of mentality, likely marketing group driven, and for the average job, this may apply, but in this particular case, the mat needs to be fully sealed in areas, and this is where paint alone just will not do. The rest of the hull, sure, pick your poison, but the gouges and exposed mat spots, need to be closed up again.

 

I would like to know the name of the paint that alone can be used to repair blistered fiberglass.

 

Me too - but I dont think it exists.

 

We will leave it here. You are right, the permeability of Interprotect 2000e is not very good. It is a good barrier. I wasn´t proposing use as sealer.

How a product is called is on MSDS is not always relevant. Especially in labelling ie legal terms. eg a resin when used as a sealer on wood is a sealer. When used as a resin with glass it is what? Still a sealer? And as a glue.

A primer on steel is a barrier surely.

ps I am a graduate chemist is polymer chemistry. I worked 15 years in paint industry labs. Add in the fact they were the biggest epoxy resin buyers in the world, it is perhaps wise to accept my declaration of fact that Interprotect 2000e is a proven barrier. Sometimes the marketing bs is true.

Don´t get always so angry or distrustful of the big guy supplier. They often deliver the goods. Whether you think you can do better or cheaper is your choice. It does not detract from fact that sometimes the `marketing hype` is true

 

Colin, you always have to be suspicious of the claims of the big guys, their only purpose in life is to make money and many times products are introduced and come to dominate the market, not because they do the job better than what was already available but because of huge marketing budgets. Where 2000e shines is that it is easier to apply than straight epoxy and for most people this is very important. Im not a chemist so I cant argue with you about the outcome of lab testing but what I am is a boatbuilder with 40yrs experience in construction in many mediums and a very analytical mind as well as a lot of repair experience so i have observed just about every common problem out there, but i always question what is being marketed to me, analyze, and ultimately, trust in my own experience above all else. That said, i think we all agree that nothing is entirely impervious to moisture intrusion given enough time but by my observation of boats i have built with a quarter of a century of use, straight epoxy does a perfectly adequate job on its own without the need for an additional 5 coats of something else to solve a problem that didn't exist. IMHO experience in the real world trumps experience in the lab when we are dealing with products being used in the real world. Over the years ive seen too many products marketed that looked good on paper but failed miserably in the real world. I don't put 2000e in that category btw.

Steve.

 

Steve

You are right to be wary of all claims.

My beef with the comments here were the black/white comment that interprotect 2000e was not a barrier coat. If you read the interlux site it calls it a barrier coat. Take up your claim with them.

I was not commenting on whether this is the best barrier coat. I wasn't even saying this was only option in OP. Of course there are many ways to skin cat (where the hell does this phrase come from?!). But it does work as a barrier coat, a good one.

I have been now over 25years in paint and of that 20in yacht paint. I have had my fingers burnt enough by claims from suppliers.

Just this winter season we have applied 300litres interprotect as barrier coat. We use it as a) we get back-up guarantee from international b) we airless spray it on which gives us better finish allied to work flexibility. It has a very healthy track record. It is certainly older than my 25years in the business. You don't get this from being oversold.

Happy painting/building.

 

Colin, a lot of times when marinas and repair yards use a product, it has little to do with if its the best for the job, just about every marina over here that has a ship store is an international paints dealer so they make the most profit using those products. A yard I worked at used West systems products, not because it was the best but rather because A/ name recognition, they do lots of advertising and B/ the distributor we used stocked it and offered free and fast shipping, if we ordered this afternoon we would have it tomorrow morning. Nothing to do with if it was better or worse than other epoxies. Point is just because something dominates a market does not make it the best product.

Steve.