Short gaff rig, one halyard feedback

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Hampus, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    Well I've spent time owning, cruising and living aboard a 50' ketch rigged, "semi-full" keel cruiser. Basically, unless you are racing, all you need for "going upwind" is to be able to sail 45deg AWA and you've got a pretty good performance cruiser. When talking about performance, I look to racing because that's where you can see the tradeoffs most quickly

    Its true that the price of an extra sail is non-trivial, but depending on the structure of the foredeck, the structural work necessary could exceed that. but you don't have to go the full Volvo 70 approach. you could just do a sprit with a big genny on a roller furler, a roller furler on your bow on the forestay, and a baby-staysl. that's not roller furled and is intentionally lighter for lighter winds.

    After all, going fwds in 12 knots of breeze to bag the baby-stays' isn't going to be a big hassle.

    But that wasn't really the point I was getting at. My original point was that if you reef the main and do nothing about the foresails, you necessarily move the CE forwards regardless of whether you are reefing a Bermuda, a "square head" Bermuda, or a Gafffer.


    What gaffers were designed for and are very very good at, is un-attended reaching. They were originally refined as shorthanded fishing boats on the Grand Banks, where once the dories were launched, there might be only one person left on board who would have to be able to helm her, as well as tie off the helm to pick up a dory when she was full.

    So by balancing the big main and the foresails, she could be set up with neutral helm where the sails would "steer" the boat: ie a luff would spill air from the big main faster than the jibs, and turning down would bring the big main broadside to the wind and shadow the jibs


    Now as to your sail balance, have you tried the combo of the storm jib on the inner stay and the roller-furler half or 25% rolled? The extra flow over the storm jib that this gives would give you more power out of that sail and the extra area of the storm jib makes up for the loss of shape in the Roller furled sail. You might need to barber-haul the storm jib in a bit at the foot to get a nice slot, but that's not that hard to set up. (That's btw the combo we would use on the Valiant 42 that I've sailed on) in the 15-20 knot range )
     
  2. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    A gaff with two halyards can have a very simple sheet at the deck, which keeps the deck clear for business. If you go to a single halyard, you have to replace the lost one with some contraption down at the deck in order to regain the ability to shape the sail. Not a problem for a yacht. The Perry design features boom vangs to do this. You could also use a traveler. Another simple arrangement that has been used on cruisers is double, independent mainsheets splayed to the corners of the cockpit. All do the same thing - they let you adjust the amount of leech tension at a fixed course and wind. The two-halyard system does have the most authority, though. The sail can be hoisted with the throat and not produce any drive at all. Then, when you have all sails up and are ready to sail off the dock, a couple quick pulls and you fill and go. I sailed on the gaff schooner Windfall from time to time in the Everglades. As a tour boat that was generally single handed as far as sailing her was concerned, a clear deck, conventional sheet horses, and two halyards let an average guy get a sixty foot schooner underway. Not that the owner was an average guy, but in theory...
     
  3. classic
    Joined: Dec 2006
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    classic Junior Member

    I've designed, built, and sailed on boats with short gaffs using single halyards. This was done specifically in order to simplify the sails & the running rigging (no gaff tops'l), increase the luff length, reduce gaff weight, and reduce windage. After trying several arrangements, the best setup seems to be to use a fixed bridle to the gaff (fixed length legs) so that the gaff raises and lowers at its intended attitude. This has worked well in practice. You will find some info on this at www.kastenmamrine.com/gaff_rig.htm (scroll down to the heading about short gaffs and skip the rest if you like...).
     
  4. gilberj
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    gilberj Junior Member

    I have recently changed the mainsail on my Herreshoff Meadowlark to a single halyard. I do not have a lot of experience with it yet...several times sailing, and a few experimental hoists. so far I am satisfied. Prior to the change I had a straight pull with two halyards and no purchase. Tightening the luff was accomplished with a tack down haul. At times this was difficult. I now have a purchase and hoisting is much easier, though the short gaff does weird things on the way up. I just need to watch it. So far I think it is a total win. I will almost definitely change over the mizzen after some further testing.
    My sails have full length battens so some of the traditional playing with gaff sail shape, is no longer available, for example I cannot scandelize the sail. I do find that halyard tension and the tack down haul on the tack allows for pretty good shape control.
    FYI my halyard goes from the gaff ( about 2/3 towards the peak)....to the original peak halyard block....to the throat halyard block at the throat of the gaff ( originally there was no block, just the throat halyard end) .... to the mast sheave ( originally for the throat halyard)...and down to the deck. instead of pulling on two halyards, I now pull 1 halyard, which is twice as long...but with twice the power.
     
  5. classic
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    classic Junior Member

    Many folks will try using a single halyard with a type of attachment that slides along a bridle / span attached to the gaff. What works much better in order to keep the gaff under control while raising and lowering is if the halyard block is attached to a bow shackle, with a fixed span above and below attached to the gaff. Some experimentation is required to get the individual span lengths just right so the sail sets correctly when raised. Once you find the sweet spot, you can make up permanent spans of wire rope if you are so inclined....
     
  6. gilberj
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    gilberj Junior Member

    These are Herreshoffs short gaffs...about 4 ft long. There is no span, or need for a span. I may need to move the peak connection on the gaff either out towards the tip of the peak or towards the throat by a few inches. Actually the weird action is only a small problem until the gaff is clear of the lazy-jacks. It has to do with the gaff slide in the mast track, grabbing a little as it is hoisted.
    As I say I am still in the testing stage, I have progressed far enough that I am pretty sure I will not go back to two halyards, but may make more small adjustments as I get more experience. So far it is a win-win.
     
  7. classic
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    classic Junior Member

    The cool thing about using a pair of fixed spans for the gaff bridle is that the "pick point" where the halyard is attached is above the gaff. If the gaff wants to snag at the track, the leg of the bridle that is closest to the mast will receive more tension from the halyard which will tend to free it. That should keep the gaff at its fully 'raised' attitude while raising and lowering...
     
  8. gilberj
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    gilberj Junior Member

    Reference was made above to Kasten designs. I am a fan of his work. I'd like to point out that many of the designs which he refers to as 'short gaff' really look to me as larger headboards. I am not sure quite how to define the difference. Also are the new age 'fat head' racing sails actually an updated version of short gaffs.
    I have not used 'large headboard sails, but I suspect they behave pretty much the same as normally constructed marconi sails with a headboard, in other words pretty benignly. I know that my short gaffs flop around until I put tension on the halyard(s) They are a completely independent element of the sail. I think this might be the difference between them. My limited experience with the single halyard, is entirely consistent with my previous experience with two halyards.
     
  9. classic
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    classic Junior Member

    An example of a short gaff design is the 44' Redpah at www.kastenmarine.com/redpath.htm, which shows the fixed spans nicely. An example of a headboard design is the 66' Asgard at www.kastenmarine.com/asgard_66.htm. Although they are different, no doubt you could regard the headboard as a VERY short gaff... serving the purpose of increasing the sail area, while still allowing a laced-on sail. With a headboard, the portion of the luff above the shrouds is not attached to the mast, or alternately the headboard could ride up on a fairlead around the halyard, which would then act as a jackline. As far as I know, this has not been necessary. These headboards are separate from the sail, and are either plywood on small boats, or aluminum on large boats. The principle is the same either way, with the "pick point" being located above the sail attachment so that the gaff / headboard is kept at its correct attitude during raising and lowering. :)
     
  10. gilberj
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    gilberj Junior Member

    I hope I am attaching this correctly....This is Herreshoffs Rozinante with a short gaff rig, I am not sure if one was ever fitted with this rig
    rozinante-herreshoff.jpg
     

  11. gilberj
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    gilberj Junior Member

    Here is my boat Whimbrel a Herreshoff Meadowlark with short gaffs Main and Mizzen. Whimbrel 2.jpg These are considerable shorter than Michael Kastens version. and different from the large head board
     
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