Political blurbs and agendas

The political tide sure has changed since this thread was started back in March..............oh wait, this thread is going to be deleted now, right?

 

OK - mia culpa... No more politics... But at least let us carry on taking the piss out of Americans....

 

Sigh!

If were gonna keep opinions outta the posts - the boards will be bereft of comment in no time.

Doesn't Opinion - include all opinions about boats boat building materials and boat designs?

Better not have an opinion on anything?

Polls of this kind always remind me of "the ol police - fit up question!".

By answering at all - you immediately allow yourself to start defending something, you may never have done ever - so why go on the defensive?

By answering - you allow yourself to be tried for something you may never have done - that someone else has deliberately pushed you into a position of defending?

I don't like polls like this, it isn't worded properly - it may mean something entirely different from how it's been interpreted...by those replying to the poll.

Ergo...

Poll: Which statement do you agree with:-

A) It's acceptable to beat your wife?
B) It's not acceptable to beat your wife (unless she cheats on you)?.

Wheres option C?

Option C (which is usually deliberately missing at the intention of the oriiiiiiginal pollster) should say something like:-

C) It's never acceptable to beat your wife under any circumstance!

But polls such as we have here don't allow for such opinions outside the perameters of the original poll question - which is questionably worded to start with.

Risky bidness web forum polls...don't like em one bit.

Besides - you should never beat your wife.....it's much more fun to beat someone elses!!

Cheers!

 

I didn't deliberately leave out any option. It was my intention to find out what the opinion of the forum members was. I think that if horse racing people were to start using this forum to post race results and horse lineages, they should be deleted too. However, political agendas bring a lot of disention; more than any other subject. Obviously, even though I put limited options, you were able to voice your opinion. Tongue in cheek comments are OK, but propaganda is not. I think you posting is facetious, because "opinions" refer to "political. Read your 3rd grade grammar book.

 

If I recall correctly - back when this thread was started many moons ago, the political comments leaked into the main forum.

Boat guys don't like leaks.

What was happening as a tit for tat fight in between posts (between a couple of opposing view points) in the middle of a boat topic - this was disruptive for many.

The few threads that were started on a political topic did seem to spill over into the other forums and individuals were branded trolls because of previous comments and prior comments and not because of any actual bad behavior at the time.

More trouble than it was worth was the consensus.

 

One Mans terrorist

One mans Terrorist / Geurilla (sp?) is another mans freedom fighter!

Thats the trubble with political comment - depending whos side your on and the timing of when it's written, it might be later construed as something totally different from what was originally intended.

The victors get to write history.

<moderator's note: controversial text removed>

 

I read somewhere that politicians and diapers need to be changed - for the same reason...

bye
Hans

 

I like to moderate the forum as lightly as possible; however, I agree with the majority (24:3 as I write this) that serious political debate quickly starts to overshadow the focus of the site: boats. There are lots and lots of forums, on the Internet and off, for discussion of politics -- we're surrounded by almost continuous political debate now -- but there are only a few forums for great discussion of boat design and construction. With innumerable better outlets for political discussion, I don't see keeping these forums on-topic as censorship; rather, if left unchecked, I fear heated political discussion spilling into every forum would quickly act to stifle on-topic discussions.

 

I certainly don't think there's a significant 'thin skin' problem that needs protection, and the banter is definitely part of making a good community. I'd also think that self-policing is better than a structural ban, particularly given that it's a pretty regular circle of steady participants.

The problem from my perspective is thread responses that don't contain any on-topic content. That is, reasonable jabs/etc. are just fine, and fun, if they are an addition to an on-topic comment. But when a comment is 100% off-topic it just doesn't belong, no matter how clever. We all want to add our card to the game when the exchanges get going, but I think the value of the forum requires the self-discipline to only do so if it's been "earned" -for the given post- by a contribution to the actual topic.

This is particularly acute for those who regularly check in via the "unread posts".

In some cases, I wonder why the private message system is not used for some exchanges - it gets to be like someone barking away on their mobile phone in a restaurant.

I don't mean this to sound like a complaint (none of us is forced to read): I've been exasperated a number of times, but the good aspects of the forum have far outshined that; this topic, however, invites the comment.

Best regards,
JPC

 

Boat Design Forums > Open Discussion > Open Discussion

Says it all really!

Cheers!

 

True enough, Trouty. I was more thinking 'thread topic' when I wrote the above.

JPC

 

I just find it ironic

I just find it very 'ironic', that you can't 'openly discuss', any item of a supposed 'political' nature - in a poll thread about whether political opinions should be allowed or not, on a forum supposedly named "open discussion" which is anything but open due to it's moderation policy?

I realize - no one likes to think about dead women and kids in todays world - especially where, the particular nation hosting the website we're posting on has such a dubious record with regard to "collateral damage" - and when potentially so many of the readers might ostensibly either be service folk currently involved or the parents for example of service folk currently involved, in actions overseas that we'd sooner not have to think / talk about or discuss.

Sadly - it was the same in the Early Vietnam days.

Sadly we are doomed to repeat our mistakes, as long as we can't face up to them, and admit them.

So I guess - more decent kids will have to go to war again sometime to kill more innocent women and kids, all because we don't dare discuss it - due to "political correctness / suppiort for the troops" etc etc...

Sad statement really - about the state of our world and the future for collectively - everyones kids in that world - including those who will in the future have to serve.

Even sadder because we haven't the stomach to discuss it, which could probably help prevent the same mistakes in the future.

Irony is an ironic thing! "Support for the troops" - could eventually get the troops themselves (not to mention their kids) killed....and for what? Gas at 5 bucks a gallon?

Methinks thats too high a price to pay - in human terms.

Mooderate me at will - I've been baned from websites in the US before today for being a pacifist, I actually take it as a compliment, because unless I'd hit a raw nerve, I wouldn't have been mooderated!

Shalom!

 

A good many points validly made in the above note from Trouty. However little blame should be laid at the American nation as an whole. Without exception, Trouty, the 'Yanks' I've met (and through my navy service I met many, many hundred) were genuine, concerned, down to earth, and logical thinking humane people. Blame for much of the present day woes lays not at their collective doors, but with their administration - as with ours (Australian); the UK's, Israel's, Palestine's etc etc etc ad infinitum...
You must never confuse political dogma with reality; what our 'leaders' claim, and with what we the 'led' believe.
And without meaning to patronise my American 'cousins' (whom I delight in teasing) it must be understood that the severest form of censureship is applied via their major media outlet - Skye TV (and I'm ashamed that it is the ******* child of a renegade Australian). Skye viewers, and if Murdoch's word is for once to be believed, occupy ninety percent of American homes.
Which means candidly that ninety percent of the American nation have no true picture of what is happening in the world beyond their shores, accepting only the distorted ramblings of the US adminstration's pet mongrel Skye, which barks to White House orders, as the truth.
"Why do they hate us ?" was the classic question posed by one interviewee following the Twin Towers butchery...Skye has yet to tell her.
Decades of banditry, interference and treachery by US government condoned covert operations. That's the answer. But who's going to tell her when rich financial rewards depend on corporate silence.
That this forum is no place for political comment, is I believe, ill considered. Every forum - by it's very nature as a forum - should offer space for its members to raise genuine concerns, and for other members to respond to those concerns as they see fit.
The suggestion that 'there are adequate, and special places' to discuss politics is false. Politics, whether we like it or not, now taint every activity of our existence. Surely it is only right that in our every activity we should retain the right to protest at that interference. Not to do so, is by our silence, seen as condoning that which cannot be condoned
Only by shouting at every opportunity will real people eventually be heard.

 

Ye gads Bergalia

Me thinks you've been drinking the same moonshine as me!

Perhaps it's the time we spend upside down that makes the blood rush to our heads!

Being a charter operator - I too have sat in a boat, with a few Americans chewing the fat. Like you, I too find them a generally agreeable bunch.

Had one poor sod do just what you said, only weeks after 9/11.

He'd been in a building looking at the twin towers as they went down - saw the folks jumping from the roof - the whole 9 yards as they say!

Asked - why do the terrorists hate us!

Then took offence when I tried to hint to him in a polite sorta way - so I shut up out of respect for his feelings (he was down here on a holiday to try n get over the stress afterall!).

Thing is...that "rah rah" (support for the troops, all rally around the flag) is a very patriotic thing for the Americans.

We on the other hand - are just a penal colony of Mother England, we rebelled against the flag (remember the Eureka stockade?) - we don't as a general rule - tend to be quite so "loyal" - we do still tend to think for ourselves, analyse - question authority etc...

Gets me into more strife than you can poke a stick at on US web boards - fishing or boating.

But - whats the point of a world wide web, if it's Americo-centric, by virtue of the fact - the majority of the web sites are US hosted / moderated and as such only "rah rah / support the troops / flag" rhetoric can see the light of day?

Propaganda - is the right term for such content.

Free speech on the other hand is an entirely different thing.

I've had a lot of Americans, who I like and respect, tell me - that they would die to defend my right to free speech, not 5 mins later they are moderating what I've said - or banning me - because members (usually whose advertising supports their site) have emailed to say they don't like what I've said / posted.

Truth and free speech matter not one iota apparently - in the land of the free and the brave so it would seem.

Rhetorics fine, it's folks actions show how their society really operates and what it's core values are.

Thats how I see it anyway!

Cheers!

 

I'm all in favour of keeping our politics out of our boating forum. One of the things I love about boats is that they keep me too occupied to get into that kind of mess! So here's to self-policing, discipline, thoughtful posting, and reporting the occasional bad apple to Jeff if need be.
So what to do with the TP52 thread.....?