Pop 25

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by abh, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. BernardG
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    BernardG Junior Member

    Interesting remark. Do you realize that an electric engine is also a dynamo, that is, if not under load, produce electricity?

    Best Regards,
    Bernard
     
  2. BernardG
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    BernardG Junior Member

    The designer already include 180 kgs (about 360 lbs) of batteries as ballast into the design. And, by difference with diesel fuel, you can generate electricity under sail....

    Best regards,
    Bernard
     
  3. BernardG
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    BernardG Junior Member

    What a great advice! :D

    Do you realize that small transatlantic racers have a ratio which is actually "worst" (meaning, wider beam in proportion) than the Pop 25?

    Here is an example: http://www.minitransat650.com/html/pogo_sailboat.html

    Best regards,
    Bernard
     
  4. BernardG
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    BernardG Junior Member

    Cursory. Well, right, quite way too fast to judge. As it happens, Roberto Barros has been building boats and crossing oceans on boats of his own design since the 60s! He has hundredth of his boats sailing around the world, and many times they won races. I doubt many boat designers can claim the same, even with production boats.

    It's not because you have never heard of him, that he is not "an acknowledged pro". But it does says a lot more about you than about him.

    Best regards,
    Bernard.
     
  5. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    You are correct BernardG. I committed a breach of propriety by using words "less than competant at boat design". I apologize to Mr. Barros for that remark.

    My excuse for my abandonement of etiquette is this: We have had many hundreds of well meaning individual posters who have decided to design their own boat. So many of them have little or no practcal design experience, and almost no technical background whatever. They are computer literate and they can use their computer graphics program to draw whatever they believe is a revolutionary new design or an immensely clever variation of the norm.. Some of those newbies take the advice and council of the more experienced forum members. Some are so stubborn that they will surely design and build a floating travesty, if it floats at all. When we see a graphic of a revolutionary new design, some of us are immediately skeptical. Very well, Mr. Barros is not one of the uninformed.

    In my own defense, I submit that you cannot possibly know who you are addressing or what degree of expertise that I, or we, may have. In the meantime: Peace and good fortune to you.
     
  6. BernardG
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    BernardG Junior Member

    And you are absolutely right about this. Please forgive me if my last sentence was a bit harsh.

    Best regards,
    Bernard.
     
  7. jamesgyore
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    jamesgyore Senior Member

    I very much agree. He is a most unassuming man. Very talented, without doubt and feels no need to shout about it. Why would you feel the need to when you have his credentials, experience and practical know-how?

    He is approachable and very easy to contact and remain in contact with. I look forward to his emails and obviously I am keen to share my progress (which has been very little during my winter), with him.

    He has been an inexhaustible source of experience and wisdom during my build/project so far. I dare suggest that few other designers are as involved or as interested as Roberto is in the successful completion/launch of one of his designs.

    Time and again with questions, whether related specifically to the POP 25 design or to my specific usability issues and intended usage of the design, he comes through with thoughtful and carefully considered responses, often in just a matter of hours.

    Having read about other peoples horrible experiences with boat designers after having purchased their plans, honestly, I'm very pleased to have selected a Roberto Barros design.

    I'll add in response to the remarks made about the unusual hull geometry of the POP 25. I'm no arm-chair sailor, nor am I a boat designer, yet it is plainly evident to me that the POP 25 design is ahead of it's time for the amateur builder.

    I see the POP 25's basic hull geometry/philosophy in every Volvo ocean race yacht, and in Transat boats. To this end, jokingly, I refer to my build project as my micro-maxi yacht.

    Here I think Roberto has borrowed, for the POP 25, the very best of modern thinking in yacht design and turned out an easy to build small yacht for the amateur builder.
     
  8. BernardG
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    BernardG Junior Member

    Thank you for your answer. From the study plans I have, I would also say that Pop 25 seems to be a very robust boat, perfectly able to go offshore. I am still not 100% decided on building it, as I would prefer a catamaran. If Roberto was designing a cruising catamaran ( for now he publish plans for one, but it's an open deck racer ) in the same "spirit" as Pop 25, I believe I would have already started building it!

    My only little "fear" with Pop 25 is about chop at anchor. It might be a bit noisy because of that flat bottom, but it depends on so many factors that I may be totally wrong about this.

    Good luck with your build, and let us know about your progresses.

    Regards,
    Bernard.
     
  9. jamesgyore
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    jamesgyore Senior Member

    I'm inclined to agree. If POP 25 is very lightly loaded.

    But then again she is a family centric coastal cruiser more likely to be overloaded than too light.
     
  10. BernardG
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    BernardG Junior Member

    Yep! We are thinking along the same lines.
     
  11. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Nope, doesn't work efficiently on small boat and it is complicate and very expensive.
    Under sail you loose a lot of speed if you have wind, without wind, well :D
    Why going complicate and pricy when you can go simple and cheap, is beyond my understanding.
     
  12. BernardG
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    BernardG Junior Member

    Hum, if I remember well, about 50 years ago it was working just fine on my bicycle to have lights at night with a dynamo turning against my tire. Did not we made any progress in 50 years?

    This kind of answer reminds me of people talking about the subway in Paris, while it was built. Scientifics, experts, were writing in newspaper (there was no Internet, then) that passengers would die, crushed by air pressure of the train moving in tunnels at the very excessive speed of +- 40 mph....We all know those experts were right, right ?

    What is "a lot of speed" in this context, for you?

    BTW, there is absolutely nothing complicated in this, it's way simpler, mechanically and electronically speaking, than your car engine. But it's not cheap, I agree. In the same time, I have no idea how much gas will cost in 10 years from now, while I bet electricity you produce yourself will still be at the same price....
     
  13. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Dskira is totally correct. The bike dymano barely lit your one little headlight. Modern generators, like in cars, put a huge load onto the generator shaft before they start to work, as many poor windmill homebuilders have found.

    If the water generator idea was feasible - you would find a whole lot of commercial solutions. Try Googling for one - you will be disappointed.
     
  14. BernardG
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    BernardG Junior Member

    http://atlanticcup.org/atlantic-cup...r-racing-to-compete-in-transat-jacques-vabre/

    It sure must slow down terribly and be inefficient, as this racing team has been using a water generator as their ONLY on board energy....(I am aware that a fast huge racer will be much more efficient in that regard than a smaller, slower sailboat)

    And you're right, there is nothing on google about this:

    https://www.google.fr/search?q=sail...e..69i57j0l3.11433j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    I believe you are confusing those water generators that you trail far behind the boat, with relatively small propellers, and a shaft generator, which is in fact what an electric engine is while not under load.
     

  15. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I can't agree more.
     
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