The end of the world is near....... what Yacht will you build?

Individual solutions for the individualist survivor

Humans are among the animals that can not live in solitude for long or if they try they loose or turn against their own nature as social/tribal/herd animals. So one should be able to separate the solutions for the individual from the solutions of the collective. If one's perceived tribe is his own family and thinks of himself as the dictator whose perceptions and decisions will be executed and adopted ... then she/he should look for such solutions.
Those who think of survival as a one man sport ... should the rest of us care?

Just think of us here, those who participate on this board, and their relatives and friends who are willing to follow us, taking over an appropriate number of tankers VLCC or larger and chain them up .... collectively we will survive when "organized' governments and armies fail. It would take a group that is larger and more organized than us to defeat us. That is a collective solution. Sufficient wind and sun for power, sufficient rain for water, and shallow water for algae and sea life to sustain life on board.

Individual solutions are no solutions at all. Rambo with a titanium hull and arms and space food will be defeated in a jiffy by an organized group of 10 of us. Then we will take the next Rambo and the next and the next. The gang will always win the individual, Hollywood is LYING!
The gang will be defeated by a larger GANG, till the powerless gather themselves up in a large social and just group whose aim is the collective well being and not destruction and theft from others.

So the original question should be separated in branches of individual, small group, larger group, and it all boils down to social organization of the group and decision process. The most massive democratically organized grouping will win all others. The reason that the US is more powerful than China is the Chinese are not as manageable to act on the central authority, while Americans are. The collective sense of well being in the US is incorporated in the sense of unity of the American. The collective sense of well being in China is to overthrow their own rulers and army. Same goes for India. Less and less of it goes on in Europe.

In Malta there may be more of unity and collective sense but they are too small and too dependent.

So on whose boat would I want to be on? The most organized, massive, democratically run boat where my participation in decision making is well accommodated. I think it would be the best place for my kids to survive in. If I see Rambo coming hostile against us I shoot the *******!

Para Todos Todo

 

The USA is not traditionally a "collective" society. Rugged individualism is the character of traditional American views.
Times and people are changing.
I'm a dinosaur. An individual.
Small groups like the nuclear family are the true social nature of man.
Concealment and logistics are simpler and just enough hands to do the tasks that are too much for an individual and to support each other if one is ill or injured.
Cities are where people get mentally and emotionally warped!
We really are NOT designed to be hive dwellers.
As support of my opinion, where are the largest most difficult problems?
Cities. Crime, welfare dependence, homeless, political corruption, bad schools, high costs of living (import logistics), and poverty!

As compared to rural and small town America.

Bugging out and hiding isn't a lifelong tactic.

Society will re-organize after a period of anarchy, after the can'ts starve or kill each other off.

society will rebuild by the rugged individuals who survived!

And it's not the lone wolf individual you will see coming to steal what you have.

It's the gang from the city looking for fresh victims you need to be alert for.

The Rambo character, you will never see. He'd shoot YOU from concealment when you invaded HIS domain.

 

Taking over a VLCC?
I AM a ships captain.
Even a small ship is a very complicated machine.
The Chief Engineer has the most complicated and time consuming job on board, and in many companies is paid MORE than the captain.

Would you move to a desert island? Baking in the sun? Frozen in winter?
Your VLCC would be a desert steel island.

And forts and walled cities have not been secure defenses for many hundreds of years.
They are targets.

Mobility, concealment, and living off the terrain for a manageable group is the best chance.
And accurate long range single shot sniping the best defence.
Shoot and move.

 

The Rambo Character was myth, smoke, mirrors, and a lot of rewritten history.

All to make a worn out '**** star look good.'

 

A ship, any ship, takes a trained crew that is well organized and collectively run a ship like it is a skateboard. Yes it takes knowledge and it can not be run by 4. Nowdays with all automated pumping and valving you shouldn't be surprised if you see one person doing all the unloading of a huge tanker with all the crew missing out in bars for days.

#1 on deck, and #1 in engine room are just crew managers, the captain is the CEO sort of representative of the ship owner. This is one management system that has prevailed because that is how the owners want the social organization. There is no such thing as a corporation that is run democratically.

If you note above I said that this may be a collective solution once all governments and armies fail, which means all known social organization fails. It takes a huge collective effort to get oil from the ground, refined, enriched, transported as JP1/2 kerosene to a bombarding aircraft to attack a tanker.

One of the reasons you may rather be on a floating island with a controlled population and far away from urban areas (55% of earth's population) is that once infrastructure fails, hunger, and disease will spread like electrons on a copper plate. Some of the healthiest people will spread out to rural areas. If you look at the earth's population density there is not much room left. About an acre of fertile land and a couple acres of infertile land per person. So by season 2 about 2/3 of the population will be wiped out and still you will not want to go ashore with all the rotting bodies piled everywhere.

But thinking that individually or in a small group as a family you can survive such a period is absolute non-sense. It is just cultivating hopes to people to turn suicidal. Unless you are selling something to these idiots, like survival kits, guns and ammo, dried food, etc.. and books full of non-sense.

Those who talk of human survival in competitive terms, as the "militant" cap't above (killing others to survive yourself) should really go have a mental evaluation. I sure wouldn't want to be crew with such a captain. The best way to survive is by working well with all others around you and not by competing on who to kill to survive yourself. That is very close to the definition of a cannibal.

Still, 2/3 of the planet are uninhabitable and the reason is there hasn't been a need to go to that surface that has such low density when you have a denser surface. But there is a hell of a lot of life out there, resources, and energy. It just needs more thought and exploration on the idea of surviving at sea for long. In the deepest ocean you can have fish farms and the fish will never get too far away as they get hungry and turn back. You can make drinking water out of the ocean, you can plant things, make alcohol and biodiesel, more organic matter, etc. etc..

Question: If your (anyone) idea of survival is a personal one, why would you share any knowledge with anyone else? Why would you be in a public forum? You want to take knowledge from the naive but offer none of your own back? Just google what you need, buy what it takes, build and hide the rest, why should we care?

I don;t want to answer that one for any of you. None of this which is written here does not reflect a fear, an anxiety, a consideration of the possibility, of such a major catastrophe. We are getting closer and closer to it! Nobody is really trying to avoid the inevitable from those that have the power to shape the course of humanity. But as species go, they either adopt to this new reality and current environment, or fail and vanish. That is a collective direction, it is not done individually. The last mammoth on earth just didn't really matter that it was the last, the mammoth died anyway long before this mammoth got happy to still be alive.

Thinking is good, sharing thoughts is even better, coming to a single conclusion and decision to solve a problem is harder. Materializing a solution is the best part of the process.

So! What is the definition of the problem?

 

Apparently, you feel threatened by my POV and so concluded I'm a militant captain.

I threatened to kill no one and did NOT self identify with Rambo.

That's all totally YOUR take or interpretation of my post.

And you have NO concept of what it takes to run a vessel, or become qualified to even apply for the job.

While I have served on ships as large as 1000ft LOA, most of my career has been on deep sea tugs. About 135ft average.

The barge 600ft average.

In order to push buttons on an automated vessel? Someone has to turn on and boot the system.

Before you can do that, you need electrical power.

Engines need frequent servicing. Especially generators. Usually we run a genset 4 days, then swap to a "clean" genset, and service the offline unit to be ready if/when the "online" generator drops the load.
You wouldn't even be able to figure out the electrical board without training.
Captains need to know EVERY job on board.
I'm not as good a cook as the ships cook nor as complete an engineer as the chief. But I can "operate" the engine room and service the equipment.
I'm a little less capable in troubleshooting and repair.

The Chief cocks his head and listens a moment, then announces, "problem with no 17 cylinder starboard engine. Be right back."
I heard nothing extraordinary.
Ship handling is my specialty. Not just one vessel, but multiple simultaneously.
I've had as many as 8 pieces on tow wire.
Unlike large ships, we are not met by docking pilots at the seabouy. Nor assist tugs.
I do it all.
Intrernational marine law something else i'm required to know.

All seamen are trained fire fighters. The lifesaving equipment on board requires training to use.

We don't carry doctors.
All officers are trained as equivalent to paramedics.
We have narcotics on board for injection for pain. Captain decides.
Defribulator, (stand clear. Jolt!)oxygen, sutures, ect.

The biggest job of captain is contingency planning.
Perceiving EVERY possible disaster that might occur in advance, and securing aboard the right supplies, tools, talent to survive it.

I'm not mentioning navigation and all the electronics on modern bridges. You weren't planning to get underway were you?
likewise, no mention of all the rules and regulations.

Ummm.
do you know ANYTHING about stability? Or weather? Or heavey weather tactics? Hmmm.

Walled cities and fortified installations are subject to siege. Surround them and keep food and water from entering, and soon the city/fort inhabitants have to come out and fight. Or starve.
Mountain passes were favorite military control points because it limited how many enemy you had to deal with at a time.

City and fort gates limit how many troops can exit at a time. The siege army has all the advantages over the besieged. Your VLCC has very limited exit and access. And subject to siege and shooting you when you leap off into water.

and a ship without air conditioning, is an oven in summer and a freezer in winter. The HVAC system is water cooled. You couldn't even turn it on. And if you did, it would self destruct in hours at most.

and like it or not, democracy does not naturally occur. Even in democracy, leaders and cliques and gangs arise.
Somebody, not necessarily the most qualified, would TAKE command.
Then you might find yourself a galley slave. Row, Row.
Without discipline, a ship CANNOT function.
That's why they are run by specialists. Captains

 

And why would I share my ideas?
because I don't want MY family to be the LONE survivors.

As I said, After the anarchy, survivors will reorganize society.

Self reliant people built the USA and will again.

Parasites will slough off in the crisis.

Survival of the fittest is a natural law.

Only collectivism allows not just survival, but the proliferation of the unfit and dysfunctional.
By robbing the production of the capable, to support the parasites.

Cans and can'ts.
Cans will survive. Can'ts can't.
I'm an AmeriCAN.

 

Hey tug boat captain

I was in the largest tanker, built in the US in the early 1960s, with steam Turbines, built for and owned by S.Livanos (Athena and GS Livanos were sisterships).
I have worked on generators larger than your main engine in the tug boat.
Keep thinking you are the one and only know-it-all. I like older Sulzers best. Now I'd rather tune my 2 stroke Suzuki 500 that looks like the one on the image (Barry Sheene's last ride) and fiddle with little sailboats.

You still didn't provide any realistic proposals for the question of choice for survival vessel.

So, what percentage of Americans do you think are parasites and deserve to die so you AmeriCans can survive? I'm going to measure your patriotism with that figure, so watch what you say. I take it back calling you militant, but wasn't that you or someone else who "proposed" that a good sniper from the hills is a very effective way of surviving. You are so sold on the idea that others must die so you can survive, who am I to change your perception?

Unlike you, I see it very possible that people do not need to die young for things to change and survival should not really be based on personal qualification and training. Not many are really trained for 4th world war but to prevent it you will find many of us.

When the Storm hit La or the one in NJ/NY, what you saw (if you cared to) was collective behavior of people helping people to survive and rebuilt, working with each other, not against each other, without much formal organization and bosses. People gathered, proposed ideas to solve problems and went right at it. That is what I see as very American. Individually we are very ignorant in a great deal of subjects and topics. Collectively we know so damn much it is amazing. We are like a living breathing Wikipedia.
Those right wing survivalists living in the swamps of Florida training to kill AmeriCants didn't seem to ever offer any help to anyone. They are pretty good snipers killing and eating racoons. It is probably best not to ask them for help, they might shoot their own feet if not someone else's.

I'm sorry you are so angry, take a chill pill, you are on a boating board not "somewhere" else. If you envision living in a warzone against ameriCants someone at the coast guard should take a good look at you before you ever enter a vessel again.

Individual survival and autonomy on this planet is either homicidal or just plain dumb! Collective survival only takes some re-organization and incorporation of scientific knowledge and good will.

 

i'm angry at the socialist agenda changing USA to a collectivist society.

collectivism is NOT new and all the world is collectivist with the exception of USA. we are the ONLY individualist society ever created. And the USA became great. Now it's on the down spiral to crash and directly attributable to the giant inefficient over reaching government socialist/collectivist interests are installing. Why can't they leave this ONE place for individualists!

So.

Who are the can'ts?. Not my job to pick them. They choose that themselves. I'm not one of them.

As I said in an earlier post. The ideal survival vessel IMHO is a pair of trailer sailors. Set up with electric or diesel/electric drives. Easily hidden in shallow water swamps and heavy brush. A family type group of 5 or 6 is maximum to not leave a visible footprint. A nation works because of law. A family is held together by love. In absence of laws, what would YOU propose as societal cement. I have two Albin 25s I'm modifying.

I've always been an outdoorsman. Hunting fishing camping exploring.
I grew up in florida and familiar with the swamps and wetlands and the huge variety of plant and animal life they support.

South Florida has severe salt intrusion in the water table.
N Florida has fabulous supplies of fresh water lakes streams rivers.

I'm a Viet Nam vet. I understand jungle warfare. Been there. Done that.
If necessary I will kill again to protect me and mine. I'd prefer to hide.
I repeat. I have no wish to kill people.
Hiding and not being seen until the worst is over, is my intent.

I'm glad to meet you as a fellow mariner.
You seem to have a very low opinion of ship masters. Merely figure heads to you.
So I explained PART of what I actually do to earn my pay.
The paperwork and class society and coast Guard inspections I didn't mention because there wouldn't be much of that in societal collapse.
Nor did I mention mediating in crew disputes, or diplomatic sessions with clients and/or foreign officials.
Most tugs I have run had a pair of mains, 20 cylinder turbo 645 EMDs developing 7000 hp. Or 710 EMDs together producing 10 k HP.
If you run gensets bigger, you must use a lot of electricity. Like a cities power plant.
Maybe a VLCC would work with you aboard.
But still subject to siege. And impossible to hide.

And a commune type ship bound colony probably wouldn't work any better than the failed hippie communes of the 60s 70s. a few workers and lots of freeloaders causing their breakup!

 

The Seminoles were a war tribe that came down from Georgia and battled with a final victory with one Anglo survivor left in Key Biscayne. When land reservations were settled as agreements and recognition of tribes took place, they said nothing about their pacifist natives living in the Glades called Miccosukee.
The Miccosukee tribe, as being really the only people who lived in the glades, were targeted by the army to serve in Nam as they were perceived as capable of teaching others how to survive in swamps. The tribe was nearly wiped out as they lost most young men in the war. The Cans knew how to live in the glades, they knew nothing about swamps. The Cants couldn't really tell the difference between the huge wide river that is formed from the great O lake of Florida that moves south towards the gulf and keys. I use to talk to the chief in his old age in the 90s and his wife and many others who had survived the war. The Glades were destroyed by the only over-subsidized agricultural product in the US, sugar. It is like a financing program for the anti-Castro thugs living in Miami. The best drinking water Florida had, enough for all North Americans to drink from has been eternally polluted. Plants that helped filtering it died, and parasites grew everywhere. Too many sugar pesticides financed by uncle Sam to keep the propaganda alive and the bio-chem industry happy!
If I have to identify with an ethnicity I am proud to want to be a Miccosukee! They have survived 6 centuries of European hostility, the vicious Seminole intrusion, and have declared war against nobody! Now that is what I call survival skill with lots and lots of DIGNITY!!! They still live where their ancestors lived, they get along with alligators, they can use some water filtration in the river, and they know many things.
They are my teachers! They talk of freedom in a way we can only try to understand but you need to be dying for centuries to fully comprehend what it takes to be free.

 

muy bueno senor.

I'm part Sioux. They fared worse.

 

By the way. Polluted water is not necessarily permanently polluted.
Bacteria and virus and micro-organism polluted water, otherwise free from chemical pollutants, can be purified by the suns UV in 3 hours of full sunlight. All you need is a clear plastic (PET) bottle. Water and softdrink bottles, the clear ones, are PET plastic.
A paper coffee filter removes most detritus.
This cheap method of purifying water was developed by a UN commissioned committee for 3rd world use.
For general information.
Rain water except in acid rain areas would be best source of chemical free.

 

If you don't really have to go anywhere with it and it becomes like a floating reef it could be a hell of a beach front resort. It could survive for some years with some adequate measures of maintenance. The way things are going even the steel industry can't recycle all the crap they have built. Too many good ships are blown up and go to the bottom as it is more expensive to take to China than they are worth in scrap. Plenty of water storage, plenty of surface to plant things, living space, workshops. It takes a village as some crazy woman said.

On the other hand, you can have a composite hull, with composite spars and rigging, camo in sea/sky colors, and you can sail in stealth mode past radar and even naked eye. But what good is it to be all alone, or even with a small group. It means nothing. Just some miserable last years that only meant something to you and nobody else. If we can all survive and get along without stepping on each others toes that would be an achievement. But it can't be done by boat builders and boaters alone. It takes a village. It takes one who know how to make soap for all of us to have soap. One who knows how to operate on livers and such things. One who knows how to forge bronze, and one who knows how to wire up a 3 phase generator. ... etc. Collectively we may know all we will ever need to know.

Autonomy is something you work on collectively, then freedom comes on its own.

 

I can agree with much of what you say. But Freedom does not come of it's own. It needs to be created by determined and resolute people!
I did say, I wasn't planning to hide till the end of my days, only until calm and sanity returned.
You mentioned by year 2, most of the crazies and desperados (desperate ones) would be dead. 9 months of tropical heat and bacteria reduces a corpse to a skeleton.
The sepulchers in New Orleans are available for the next family member needing it after 1 year. The bones are sacked and deposited in the back end with other sacks of bones.
Learned that during a graveyard tour in New Orleans.

So 3 years max? Then start rebuilding.

And I did say sniping is the best defense.
I never proposed an offensive.
Defense more than suggests, it requires an aggressor to defend against.
I'd rather the aggressors ignored me, cause didn't know we were there.

And if my children and grandchildren survive to rebuild and have the skills? Then my life meant something.

 

I realy don't know if life mean something. Born..................... Dead.
What a treat