34th America's Cup: multihulls!

Oracle

So what have you seen that convinces you Oracle can match the Kiwis around that course ?
Are they practicing with a race ready boat and matching the NZ skill level ?
I can't see it.

 

34th AC

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Paddy, so that this thread doesn't get shut down like the "Americas Cup Declining" thread, can we not restart the mono vs multi debate and keep it on the 34th Americas Cup? This post is like waving a red flag in front of CT, Mike Johns and others who may feel the need to lash out. This is an informative thread-I'd hate to see it get closed because of the same kind of fighting that infected the other thread.....please.

 

Good on you for defending your thread. ;-)

I am happy and amazed that the AC72 are up on foils. I am mildly interested in the outcome of the AC series and where the winner of AC34 will take the event.

The lack of photos and video where Oracle looks like they are the boat/team to beat makes me think that ETNZ will sweep the series. I think that if photos and video exist that makes Oracle look faster and/or shows better boat handling than ETNZ it would be out there to try to shake ETNZ's confidence.

The show is great for the technical side of it. SF is too cold for good booby shots ...

I think ETNZ won the AC when they read the rule to allow measurement with the boards down. The limits on testing and replacement parts in an effort to reduce costs will prove to be Oracle's undoing.

When ETNZ wins they will find it hard to sell the idea of old, traditional, ballasted monohulls to anyone in a position to fund/sponsor the next AC. This lack of funding will cost ETNZ the Cup in AC35.

How's that for a bunch of crap that will come back to haunt me?

Randy

 

34th AC

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Well, for one thing they are two boat testing pretty frequently-thats gotta be a big help. For another they have a great team from the designers thru to the crew. And then, they have my 100% support which, I'm sure will be a big part of their final win.........
Seriously though, I hope it's a great series and I hope the team wins that will keep the 72's or a close relative in the Cup.

 

34th AC

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Hi ya, Randy! I have the greatest respect for TNZ-their pioneering three foil system with a surface piercing/fully submerged/combo single main foil is the most significant advance in catamaran foiler design ever. It's being copied by all the boats ,not only in the Americas Cup but in the Little America's Cup as well.
I can't think of his name(Dalton?) said a few weeks ago that if they win they're going back to monohulls. We can't have that so I feel compelled to support Larry and the boys and hope they go forward with mutihulls.
I enjoy just watching these boats but I'll bet they'll be some real thrills in the finals-especially on the first windward leg when Team USA jumps up on foils and leaves TNZ in the spray......Well, it could happen! First one to foil upwind wins! And Oracle foiled upwind for about 10 minutes today........

 

34th AC

I found this on an RC site! Andrew Mason discusses optimization of Oracles two boats http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-cup-2013-oracle-design-andrew-mason-13067.php

 

I know you are passionate and I have no problems with your opinions but some of the hype and spin gets a bit tedious. The above is a good example "Lashing out" like I'm doing right now .

It would be nice to call a spade a spade and actually have a discussion without being called luddites. There's a hypersensitivity in some people who have multihullism that anything negative about any vessel with more than one hull is heresy. But that's not Naval Architecture, and this is a boat design forum not a training ground for AC cheerleaders.

So far the concensus of opinion is that the technology is impressive but the races are boring. But the media release and marketing hype hasn't eventuated as sold to the masses.
I'm hoping along with most that some closer racing might prove to be a bit more entertaining along with everyone else.

And I'm not a luddite and despite your best efforts to spin me into the role I'm not anti multihull either. I do like to talk about whether a design meets it's SOR. And if you are calling yourself a professional designer now maybe you should be very careful about just who is wearing blinkers......

As for the fastest boats......mmmm how did they work that out?

 

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I was hoping that this thread would not degenerate into anti-Americas Cup stuff like the "America's Cup Declining" thread(now closed ) did and could stay focused on the 34th AC as it is-not as we might want it to be. Anyone can start another thread about whats wrong with the Americas Cup, or "How the Americas Cup Boats Don't Meet Their SOR" or other topics such as "Media Hype Sold by Rich Boys Confuses Masses" but that is not what this thread is about. I'd be interested in the actual design details of the race boats, the wings and the foils as they are now-not whether or not they should be part of the Americas Cup-they ARE part of this America's Cup so lets have a great discussion about the actual way these boats work and why one might be faster than another-please.

 

Good finds, Doug!

It's interesting to read the enthusiasm of the interviewer for CFD methods
and the more sombre assessment by Andrew. The fact is that CFD has made
great strides in the last 10 years, but it still cannot be relied upon
without a lot of experimentation, both in towing tanks and in the field.

One important matter that wasn't mentioned explicitly was that not all
parts of the boat scale easily from tank models to full size. Not only
is there the classic dilemma between Reynolds numbers and Froude numbers,
there are many issues with splash and spray drag, and the vortices shed from
the tips of the foils and rudders.

There's still a lot of work for model builders and testers, and there's still
a lot to learn from sailors of smaller boats who can make important
observations that might end up being implemented on the larger AC size boats.

That said, the actual races are still as boring as bats**t.

 

Just to clarify once and for all. Leo, Mike, myself and others are NOT saying the boats are boring, or that technology sucks. What we ARE saying is that the racing, so far, is boring. I mean, talk about a "one horse race"

Very different

Richard Woods

 

The only boat I have ever seen that better represents all of my research
interests in one bizarre bundle was the strange trimaran in the movie
Waterworld. The AC boats run a close second, but the crews should be
allowed to harpoon their opposition to make the races more interesting.

 

I had been wondering about a grounding base for the headsail, probably a self tacking system in there. The white thing seen on the spirit trampoline a week or so back was a soft base test for it.

 

The windward performances between the two differing hull shapes is going to be an education: ETNZ's semi planing shapes forward and central, versus Oracle's fine, rounded and low wetted surface areas.
Oracle tends to be too nosy beating (to my eye) while ETNZ are climbing the lee hull up - and the difference to windward between the semi foiling/semi planing Kiwi versus the deeper rounded but fine O's is going to be one of the crucial design and performance differences between the two.
We've seen images and videos of the Arabic/Kiwi close reaching/beating? and flying. Getting the right balance between flying but not side slipping is going to be the magic position. Can't wait.
Offwind and gybing I think the Kiwis will be untouchable. Sorry Doug, brutal truth.
O's only chance is that their windward performance will be superior.
But you can guess my bias.

 

Well said, Doug. Multis and monos are both wonderful types. Thank you for being even-handed in your requests for an end to the mono/multi debate.

Cheers and well done.

 

34th AC

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You take my breath away-most unexpected. You're welcome!