Books for Layup Schedules

I'm wondering if you guys can point me in the direction of a good book to learn about layup schedules. I'm considering making my own small mold and hull and I would like to learn a bit more about layup schedules.
Are there any books that are head and shoulders above the rest as far as containing useful information?
Thanks.

 

If you want a cookbook approach, "The Elements of Boat Strength" by Gerr is probably the easiest to use. However, it assumes you understand enough of boat design to make sense of it. Drawing a boat and designing are different things though. The design includes either having experience or the knowledge to calculate and predict behavior, loads, weights and other variables.

 

Design Guide for Marine Applications of Composites might be worth a read for you.

 

A problem with reading books is they don't actually give you the information you are really looking for they seem to evade that part and run round the fringes but never actually specify a given laminate for a particular size of boat .
Going back into Jurassic times some of the older books published in the 1950/1960s would give a simple laminate that was suitable for a given application so you could use it simply as a guide line .
These days you are told you need to consult a composite structural engineer to give you a specific laminate for your particular boat , most times you'll get a sheet of paper with graphs and figures that at the end of the day are totally meaningless but it sure as hell looks good and has fooled a few other people before you came along .

Its not as complicated as these experts are trying to lead you to believe !!
With polyester resin , chopped strand matt and woven roving thrown in for good luck you can make any kind of boat ,almost any size !!
Its only when you start wanting something special then you have to use your head a little more !!.
Understanding what all the different types of glasses can be used for and why and what can they do ,understanding this is the key that unlocks the door to making lighter and stronger boats that will go faster if you are wanting that .
The web site given is really good and gives a broad look at everything but its there to make you think a little !

So what size boat you looking at wanting to build eventually ??

 

Thanks for the replies.
Tunnels I'm looking at making a mini around 12' long so it's not going to be a huge deal, I just want a little direction as far as glass layups go.

 

It can be a "huge deal" if your little mini will blast along at a good clip, as the bottom and slam loading will rise exponentially, requiring laminate adjustments based on anticipated loads. Geer's book will get you a safe, if a bit over built laminate schedule, but on a 12' pocket rocket, it'll be a dog, compared to one, designed to it's expected needs. Simply put, if you just want a 12' puddle jumper, Geer's book will do fine and you'll have a pretty tough little boat. On the other hand, if you want to save money by designing the laminate, where it needs to be, producing a light, yet strong layup, you'll need to do the math and calculate the schedule.

 

Ita a small boat !!but Big issues !!

As PAR has just said small boats are an issue of there own because they have to be built like a pocket battle ship so to speak !! the loadings and punishment is way worse than any normal bigger boat would have to endure so your building skills and how its built will really have to be A1 . other things to take into account is twist and flexing depending on what kind of a deck layout you end up with the deck is the part that takes and hold the hull from twisting !!. depended on how you are going to make the internal framing will determine the flexing of hull panels in the bottom . you have to read very carefully and get to know what materials you are going to need to use !! its not that hard but would be interested to see what YOU find and what YOU think
Good reading !!!

 

Thanks a lot guys! I really appreciate the input.

 

Theres more than first meets the eye going on here !!

When and if you do manage to find some lay ups take particular note of the glass used and how the lay up is put together !! simply by changing the stack order and placing the different glasses used in a different order will change the way the laminate behaves !! but there's other things like internal framing and stringers can have a huge baring on the type and amount of glass that's needed to do a specific job !
Strength is a difficult thing to explain !!
how do YOU interpret strength or as something being strong ??
there a few different ways to interpret something as being strong , robust ! ridged , unbreakable and so on !
Is it better for panels to flex and if so by how much ??
or do they need to be ridged like concrete ??

Something to think about ! would you drive your car over a rough road without any springs ?? it would be hard riding Yes ??
What could make a boats ride a little softer ??
how could this be achieved ??
and in doing so are you weakening the construction or in fact making it stronger ??? :?:
oops that doesn't go together ?? or does it ??

 

Great points, I will keep that in consideration.

 

I am average engineer. reading couple books. quite agree with tunnels. as he seems like old timer and one of guru in this forum.

 

When all else fails , go back to the begining !!

Maybe an old timer but also into the most modern up to date methods as materials !! it always seems everything is different than before but once you scrapping away the bull that get shovelled at times its really not changed that much at all still just glass and resin with a hard on !!, and one with out the other is not much good to any one !!.

 

Tunnels is both correct and incorrect. If you're just playing with typical resin and laminate systems, then the calculations are similar. If on the other hand, you're looking into higher 'glass to resin ratios, light weight and exotic fabrics or high modulus laminates, then you'd better do the math. As a rule, these types of laminates are highly engineered and must be, or they'll be too heavy, too brittle, too flexible, use too much labor, etc., etc., etc. BTW, the math isn't hard, though can be tedious, if you don't have software.

 

why are you making life so difficult when there is no need to ???

Is this guy making a moon shuttle or a formula one racing car ?? no he's wanting to make in his back yard a small power boat !!
If you want to get the glass to resin ratio better and very close to infusion levels just peel ply it !! its not that hard and you don't even have to use a squeegee !! because they can cause more problems than they solve !!

 

He's asking for scantlings, Tunnels, which is just a guess, even with your experience. Guesses as a rule, waste materials and cost more. So, if he wants to spend more time and more money than he has to, he can take your advice and "wing it". I'm sure it'll turn out fine, just more costly, heavier and longer to build. Conversely, he can wing it and end up too light, without enough material and break the thing. This is the problem with novices guessing.

All this said, I know full well that both you and I could easily guess and build a fine and sufficiently strong enough little boat, but we're cheating and using countless hours (decades) of experience, so we'll be damn close, just with a reasonable guess. He's looking for a book to guide him through the process and Geer's "Elements of Boat Strength" will offer this, but it will be over heavy, especially at this size, using his "scantling number" thingie. In fact, most little boats don't even fit on the chart scales used in this book, intentionally.

Lastly and as both you and I have pointed out (as have others) the design aspect needs to be addressed, so he can know where to paint the boot stripe and have it actually float on it, come launch day, if for no other reason. If it's just a 12' row boat, then pretty much anything will do, but he's indicated he wants a "mini" which I'll assume is a pocket rocket with an outboard. This is a whole different animal and dynamic instability can be pretty dangerous, blasting along a few inches off the water.

Hydro, if indeed you're looking to build a pocket rocket, like a class hydro (or similar), then do yourself a big favor and buy a set of plans, so the damn thing doesn't want to swap ends, once you've powered up and start to hump along a little. I've done this and broken bones in the process - trust me, you don't want to, it hurts.