trimaran removing centerboard

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by ar99kid, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Rumars.
    Most of what you say is exactly right--------Except for,
    "plywood only likes epoxy resin. as for painting ply with resin (epoxy I hope) that's bogus. You either do a propper job and use fiberglass or do not do it at all and only paint it. it's almost impossible to avoid pinholes in a thin coat and a thick enough coat is to brittle without FG. and poplar and okume are not exactly classified as "durable" in a marine environment."

    That is not true.
    Many boats forty years old are still only coated with epoxy (which is not brittle like polyester).
    Ask BruceB for instance.
    I you don't agree, get the Gougeon bro's book on the WEST system. Or if you PM me your address I will send you a booklet on the Bote-Cote system for free.
    Don't forget we are talking about Multihulls here---which need to be kept LIGHT to get the best and safest performance out of them. :D
     
  2. Rumars
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Location: Germany

    Rumars Senior Member

    Well thank you oldsailor.
    I have the Gougeon book and read again and again learning every time. especially the could molding section since veneer is still cheap here (2,5mm spruce around 3 euros/m2 or 4 AUD) and fully agree (I mean how coud I not, they bloody proved it :) ) as for encapsulating ply that is a can of worms I'm not really prepared to open. some seem to do it right and it lasts, others seem to do it wrong and it fails. I know it can work just as I know good ply has lasted 40 years without encapsulation only with regular varnishing (just look at the countless ply boats from Holland made until the 70's, they usually die from nail sickness). but since I don't trust my materials or workmanship I resolved myself to a brace and suspenders aproach and decided that for embalming ply 60g/m2 fiberglass assures me that it's done the "good way". and for the added weight well I'll lose a few kilos or substitute the onboard beer with rum and call it even. :cool: But that's just for me, as in my compromise.
    Thanks for the Bote-Cote offer, I hear it's a wonderful system but unfortunateley it's unavailable here. romania is a harsh land for the amateur boatbuilder, the "good" (means brand) epoxy formulations are few and (to the most of us) expensive, real marine plywood is unheard of, "good" plywood is expensive or heavy (wonderful ucrainean birch ply on the market but heavy, suited for monos, but again monos are cheaper on the big EU used boat market), quarter sawn lumber only if milled to order, etc. But we don't complain, make do with what we have and experiment with "alternative" materials. I think we will be on the forefront of using poplar plywood (hell it's oficial now, Wharram used it for his Atamasi) and 100% solids flooring epoxy as "next generation" boatbuilding materials.

    But although I'm a big fan of light and "alternative" I still don't approve of spraying plywood decks with poliester gelcoat and hope the OP used some epoxy formulation. Would be the first time I hear of actually spraying epoxy and not brushing or rolling it, but I'm prepared to learn.

    really OT: right now I'm dreaming of a good workspace to craft one of them nice buccaneers. hell given a nice heated workshop I'll even do it cold molded in 0,8mm spruce veneers and skin the boat five times over using "good" epoxy. what a boat that would be :D
     
  3. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    I love the passion in this thread.

    You guys are invested!
     
  4. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Quote.---Romania is a harsh land for the amateur boatbuilder, the "good" (means brand) epoxy formulations are few and (to the most of us) expensive, real marine plywood is unheard of, "good" plywood is expensive or heavy (wonderful ucrainean birch ply on the market but heavy, suited for monos, but again monos are cheaper on the big EU used boat market), quarter sawn lumber only if milled to order, etc. But we don't complain, make do with what we have and experiment with "alternative" materials. I think we will be on the forefront of using poplar plywood (hell it's oficial now, Wharram used it for his Atamasi) and 100% solids flooring epoxy as "next generation" boatbuilding materials. ---Quote.

    Rumars, I really feel sad for you. It must be difficult to have ambitions and not have the required materials available. I am sure you will be able to overcome your local supply problems. You sound like a really determined person.
    If you do ever decide to build a Buccaneer I would be pleased to help you any way I can. :D Paddy.
     

  5. ar99kid
    Joined: Nov 2012
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    Location: Romania

    ar99kid Junior Member

    morning everyone ...here it is morning :)

    while having coffee i decide that this will me my last post on this out off topic subject ...

    rumars , obviously each of us know some things and also do understand each other point of view in a manner. more than this , i live in arad so pretty close to you and i will make some trips in the near future to zalau and maybe even to cluj so we can meet face to face and have a chat about boats , i would like that .
    don't be angry with me... from what i saw you have a lot of theory knowing here , you have studied the internet , studied the books so i lot of info , great package of knowlege. but for me you are two focused on small details and unimportant stuff : okoume plywood on those small desks ... gelcoating them or paint them ... etc ! this is making me think that you either don't have ground experience or you are "too by the book " sort of guy . but trust me , when you will build your Bucc tri and i really wish you all the luck and really want you to make your dream , you will understand that there are a lot of theory points which you yourself will leave them out in your building process ! why ? simple ... we are not building the PERFECT boat here ! i rebuild a cruising trimaran , a leisure boat for me and my family ( dad is also scuba diving ) , for me and my friends ... this is not going to be a RACE boat nor the PERFECT boat either ! if i wished that , i would have build one in carbon fiber and have it done like under 1 ton . what the hell ...this is almost all my CV in this topic here : i have two collage degrees , i did learn all my life , my brain is setup in this way to gather information ! but in the same time i have worked on fiber glass since i was 14 years old , that is this year are 20 years of experience in fiber glass ! vinyl ester , polyester , iso oftalic resins ,gelcoats , topcoat , starimat , coremat , texture ...all kinds of works i have done in all this years ! there are 12 years since i have made my first carbon fiber and epoxy cooked resin parts ... vinylester and polyester resins do rot in some sort of way , but iso oftalic one is something different , same in epoxy case :) i think i really DO know how to work with this materials ! you have said about rompolimer and polydis companies ...:) well when i have first started in fiber glass they were not even on the market ! the only company which sold resin was Azur Timisoara... rompolimer and polydis in the past were the same company , they split in these two about 6-8 years ago... more than this , rompolimer composites are 100 meters around the corner of my work shop :) ...even more than this , the technical material adviser in this company ( which is the guy you have to talk if you want ANY information about ANY product they sell ) Daniel is his name , is a friend of mine like 15 years now since the first company is in the market ! this guy is checking my progress and we chat like 3-4 hours a week ! when he leave his job he is entering my work shop from time tot time to see how i am doing with my build ! this guy builds and repairs aircrafts ( his passion and he is the one who converted me to aircrafts also ) and he REALLY knows all the things you could possible imagine about epoxi , light , durable resin and materials . so if all this info and practical experience is around me i think that i do know what i am doing ! i dind't ask for help in learning to work with composites , i have asked opinions about removing or not the center board !!!
    this is the sort of info i was looking for , something that is not related to my experience , something that has to do with guys which have done the same thing , or modified their boats in this manner or have some opinions to share . here it is nothing about pride like you 've said... when i started this topic i was almost certain i will cut the case and board out ! now after i have learned and listen to some opinions, it will stay , only a bit modded :)

    well PLEASE lets keep this topic on the topic and light as possible ! there are maybe other beginners or interested members here in info about centerboards , daggerboards etc and let's move chatting over the building process topic . i welcome you there and we can talk and share info , opinions and all the rest by the progress goes. you will see what i do , what i work and also there will be some points that you will find useful when you decide to start building your tri .

    even more than this , it is possible that i will put this boat on water in a small excavating lake of my father in law near oradea , on the way to cluj , and if you want you can join me and have a glass of wine on board discussing things in a friendlier way :) don't understand me wrong , i am a very friendly guy , but i also stand besides my points of view when i know what i am tlaking and doing ...as you can see i dind't argued with nobody when they told me leave the damn thing in place and try to build your way around it , because that wasn't "safe" ground for me so i have listened . but talking about fiberglass , it's structural resistance , comportment in water , UV resistance , different textures etc..this IS my ground and i will stand for it :) . just for your information , gelcoating and laminating is done in the spraying mode since some time now. even more than this , there are some devices which mix the roving fiber , resin and luperox in the same time at the exiting form the spray gun , in the air , in the distance between the spray gun and the working surface !

    well this is it ... my last "offroad" post here and sorry for this "romanian" debate ... we are "ardeleni " ( a region in the west side of our country ) and this is our way to be :D . rumars , i really need your help in some other problems and will like to talk about in the future .

    so thank you everybody for posting , share opinion , talked me in leaving the case ! i will do that and will keep you posted !
     
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