Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

I was actually thinking of the Trem with beachcat floats however your correct the Trem would have a higher top speed with the new amas, I guess thats where direct comparisons help.

 

Similar top speeds between them when the Tremelino uses the Hobie amas, around 17 knots.

 

Thanks for your comments about relative speed. My goal isn't racing - I am just curious. Corley, I suggested the Trinado for the design and utility, not the savings on the floats. I envision cruising for 1 - 2 people and want something fast enought to be interesting on Puget Sound.

I am also looking at the KH 23. I think this comment from ThomD (way back) applies to my objective. I think he is referring the KH23, but perhaps not the current design. Maybe this applies to all these boats:

"My biggest mistake was that I built the wrong boat. The boat is an excellent design, but not cruising enough in focus for what I wanted. Too slow to launch for the gunkholling exploits I had in mind, and horribly configured for the camper minded person. And it ought to have been obvious. It would have served the club sailor off a mooring type user to a T. I have never seen a Farrier I didn't dislike, but the likelihood is that his Trailertri 18 would have been perfect for me, and would have spent a lot more of the last 20 years in the water than has the boat I built."

 

Well, the moulds of Trinado are available for sale; couple of years already. Contact Russel Brown.



http://www.ptwatercraft.com/ptwatercraft/Trinado_molds.html

 

The space looks pretty tight on a trinado a boat with more of a flare would yield more space but concede some performance. Thom's observations really show the importance of identifying and distilling your requirements carefully. The boat he built was too performance oriented for his application. I'd like to know more about how the owner found the boat suited their needs.

Easy trailerability and folding are pretty cool options to have even if you dont use them very often. The hard decision in my view is how much performance do you want and at what point will you trade it off in preference for more comfort and useability. Whenever I think about what I'd really like in the racing and cruising contexts I end up with a minimum of two trimarans.

 

Don't forget to check into Marples boats. His 26 CC might be a good fit, plus he lived in Port Orchard for years so knows Puget Sound Conditions. John's folders, the small Horstmans and Searunner 25 are about the most economical small folders out there with owner built mechanisms. There are postings by RubyJean and a build blog for the Tristar on this forum. If you don't have to assemble you'll use it more, raising the mast and bending sails takes time enough. Beachcampers like the Cross 18 might get the most use, then you could take your tent and use the sites of the Cascadia Marine Trail. A point in favor of the larger boats is their drier ride for year round use- the water is cold up here!

 

Trailer performance

And the real world
I just put my Buc 24 away for the 4th season- so some observations. From leaving my slip (and removing my fixed dock lines), to having the boat on the trailer and covered- 3hrs first day, 4hrs next day, 7hrs total. I worked entirely by myself, on purpose, and spent some time measuring lines, organizing for next season, and such. At least 1.5hrs was devoted to racing only details. I have done it faster, and with one extra (experienced) helper, 3-4 hrs total is possible with my set-up. I have a lot of NOT quick tie-ons that slow things down, but work great when sailing. I am also 61 and don't move all that fast
Speed? A stock 24 is at least as fast as a Corsair 24, and probably at least as easy to handle on the water. Mine is faster A tall rigged 24 has done over 22 kts, and regularly hit 18- but for "normal" sailors and Bucs, its real advantages are in the 7-14 kt range, where it seems very happy and very easy to sail, and faster than most other boats.
Loads. A 24, with normal sails and engine, has a useful load of 600-800 lbs, depending on build materials and details. Thats all! Don't expect to carry more.
Build time/cost. The Buc is "less" boat than most of the others mentioned (except the Trinando) and will probably be built at less cost and more quickly than any of them. The 24 was designed as a "quick build" , and 800-1000hrs is quite possible, way less than half as much time as most other boats, and doesn't require any building fixtures- a real advantage. A 24 can be built in parts in your driveway and moved in or out as needed. I did an estimate of materials at current prices, at around 11K-12K US, using good materials, before sails.
IMO, not the boat for everyone's needs, but quite a deal if acceptable, and much more likely to be completed than most other designs. B

 

A transportable not trailer boat in the usual definition.
A great one too

 

Transportable

Yes! I have looked into making a buc fold, and of course, it can be done- but it still might not be all that better to trailer. It really takes a lot of careful engineering to make a multi fairly easy to trailer. (to me, under an hour set up/take down time) In my experience, many sailors take 1/2 an hour with a Laser, but anything over 20 mins seems like a long time when you are doing it.
7 hrs seemed like a REAL long time B

 

Buccaneer 24' purchased as a test mule for the EZIFOLD folding system development

After much consideration the Buccaneer 24' has been chosen as the test mule for the EZIFOLD folding system prototyping and continual development.

Watch this space as we seek input and advice from fellow Buccaneer owners, this is a great little boat that development we hope can only make better.

"No one is as smart as many" hence questions will be asked when testing and further development continues.

Details will be updated/documented on http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ezifold-Yachts/212821925457790?ref=hl

 

What kind of folding system is that?

 

A new design?

OTB, this is big news- if you can make the Buc fold and still keep it fairly simple, the world just might beat a path to your door. (at least a few boat builders ) I am not on Facebook, so if you get a chance to post at least some of the details here, it would be of great interest. I plan on building a new set of floats for my boat soon ( starting in a month or so), and I might want to include the details necessary to use your design.
I built a prototype "ferrier" folding set up, but decided my boat would require too many mods to make it practical, at least for now. I am happy to share any of my details with you, either here or private, even if you are doing it for profit. I would just like to see it happen.
Good luck, I hope you are successful. B

 

I looked on that Facebook page but there isn't any more info there yet.

Just a thought: maybe Dragonfly folding mechanism would be better for Buccaneer then Farrier.

 

weight

The dragonfly mechanism is stout but heavy, from what I have seen. It also would make the 24 well over 30' long when folded, although keeping the floats walkable is nice. (I have weighed farrier folder parts, but not the fly's) A Buc 24 can't carry any more weight. A light farrier style, with water stays and crossbeams designed and sized properly, doesn't add much weight and should be very stiff, but the hull attach points and cabin/deck have to be entirely re-designed for it to work properly. It would hardly be a Buc anymore, and not nearly as simple, cheap, and easy to build. B

 

The system has along way to go yet in prototyping at full scale on the boat, this takes time, money and testing, it has been in development for years just quietly ticking away as all the box's were ticked off and modelling and prototyping has been undertaken along side the catamaran development.
We were full steam ahead back in 2008 but had a couple of false starts with the economic melt down (so we decided the timing wasn't right to continue spending buckets of money on development) a marital meltdown, so we sold up the building business and other business interests that were funding the EZIFOLD project and development, (there is no bigger detriment to financial wealth than a marital split), then a smashed up wrist and 2 years out with operations etc, however all the stars seem to be aligned now so we are underway again with the EZIFOLD project. The Trimaran project will inch forward in a methodical manner no promises no big flashing lights, no claims other than it is our take on an age old problem of folding one of these multihulled things as cheaply and simply as possible while retaining rigidity and lightness, so we are sorry it will just be inching forward to produce what we hope will be a light non complicated minimalistic folding system.
You do not have to be on Facebook to view updates etc you just click to close the join up window on Facebook when it comes up and you should have open access to the full Facebook page.
Questions to all the Buc owners interested will come from us as we progress, The Buc is being picked up this evening so should be in the workshop by midnight NZ time today 4th Dec 2012.
A bit about the background of the EZIFOLD project etc is on www.ezifoldyachts.com
NOTE this is no hugely funded money making venture, it is more a passion, Unless someone really wants one and has the financial means to have what they want then we envisage after the prototypes at 15' and 20' are completed, at best we will build our own yacht and once 100% happy with it, it may be sold to fund further development.
Retrofit kits for the folding systems both Trimaran and Catamaran, and performance parts like lifting foils, dagger boards and kick up rudder systems etc are more realistically likely to be produced and sold to fund development in this economic market.
PLEASE we cannot stress enough "Expect nothing and you will never be disappointed".