Old Quarter Tonners -Magic Bus

OK, good to hear.

I'll drop you an e-mail now so you have my address again.

If you get that thing out here I'll sail with you on Wednesdays next summer!

 

I think this is the boat you were talking about. I do recall Croshere being involved in sail design for North Sails, but not out here. By the time I recall he was back east somewhere. I never saw this boat. Must not have been around too long.

 

Dave Croshere, that's the guy and the boat. Stan was originally a dinghy builder, mostly Finn, FD and OK I think Dave was a friend from Dinghy racing. The boat was a pooch and likely named for the brew, their capacity was impressive.
The boat was cold molded from basswood, the skin was let into a rabbet in the timber keelson. Whatever technique or glue thy used to do this didn't work. After sailing it a little the writing was on the wall that the design missed the mark and the boat had started to leak at the keelson. I think they pulled the hardware and scrapped the hull. I sailed on it a little, really tender upwind, rolled like mad downwind.
I wonder whatever happened to Stan Teel? I think John went to Tahoe and got into homebuilding. Stan hung on for years I think the Port finally took the property for expansion.
Good old days

 

Here's another from the same year (1974) and from your neck of the woods. Did you ev er see it? I didn't, never even heard of it or the designer/builders.

 

Wow, where do you get all this old stuff. Geoff was a friend,and a Kurt Vonnegut reader, designed and was building it in his folks garage. Never wore shoes feet covered in dry resin. Built like a brick outhouse out of Seaflex. I don't remember the details but the step chine in the hull caused IOR trouble, Geoff gave up on it sold it to another friend Mike Shaw who finished it and PHRF raced it a little. I don't remember it showing any speed, Mike sold it and it disappeared. Geoff worked for Sails by Watts for a little while, and along with Bill Petersen and a couple other guys there bought that Peterson QT hull, put a ply deck on and went PHRF racing, fun little boat , always full of good guys, he then moved to the mountains and became a ski instructor. Geoff was a smart guy, funny, a good sailor, I haven't though about him in years, thanks for reminding me.

 

I was wondering about that. I didn't get my first copy of the IOR rule until about 1977, so I wasn't sure about earlier versions. But by 1977 you were not allowed to have hollows in transverse sections except near the bow. So his "step" would not have been legal under the IOR. Maybe he should have read the rule closely before starting to build the boat?

In the early 80s I was involved in a custom One Tonner that was in a rush to get in the water for their first regatta. The measurer found a small area under the stern counter that had a small hollow at the CL. We're talking about 1 or 2 mm gap over a 100mm diameter. The measurer would not let that go and made the owner mix up a hot batch of WEST, fill the area, sand it, then remeasure before he would sign off.

I did some projects with Billy later, when he was partners with Norman in the MdR Sobstad loft. Billy was a real sailing talent. Ed "Lorence from Torrence" was a great guy who owned the Watts loft and then the Sobstad franchise out here.

 

I'm thinking Geoff started Player Piano in the real early '70's and a rule change did it in.
Sailed with BP and his dad on their Cal3-30, then various other stuff, Billy sailed with us on Duck Soup. Lost touch when he went to Hawaii with DC .
I see he's racing a M242 in MdR. Sailed a few times with Ed, fun guy to sail with and super talented

 

The Waarschip 1/4 Tonner of 1973/'74

Hi Everybody,

Iam following this thread for a while and today i scanned a few old Photos of one of my former boats, the quarter tonner "The Lucky Strike", ex "Tess", ex "Quart". "Quart" was the original name I think. Or better to say, it was the last name I could read when I sanded the boat for painting ...

She is one of the two Waarschip Prototype Quartertonners built in 1972/'73 by designer K.T. Kremer and the Waarschip Boatyard in the Netherlands for two german owners. Both boats sailed at Weymouth 1973. The hull is the standard shell of the Production Waarschip 725, but all plywood one size down (8mm in the upper planks, 10mm in the bottom). Everything else was heavily modified. Data: LOA 7,25m BOA, 2,5m, Draft, 1,55m, Wheight 1100kg, G1 ~20m², Main ~9m², Spi ~ 45m².

Her great race record was in 1974, after further modifications at the rudder, when she did exeptionally well in the Quarter Ton Cup in Sweden. The pre-owner told me she was world champion, but I think this is not correct. I think she were third and the result list of the french site is wrong

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Quarter%20Tonner/Quarter%20R%E9sultats.htm

"Timschal" is listed here as third, but Timschal is a much more modern boat with an open cockpit and appered in 1979. Who knows, if anybody has better results or information, let me know.

I was her third or fourth owner, and sailed "lucky" from 1988 to 1996. We won many local races and had a lot of fun with her. Impossible today for a qurter tonner, she was an excellent singlehander, due to her large stability.

Here are some photos.

 

Timschal was indeed third that year, based on the report written by Jack Knights published in SAIL magazine a couple of months after the regatta.

 

There has actually been at least 3 Timschals. The first was a flush deck race version of the Delanta, an early Dehler production yacht.
Timschal(1), design van de Stadt, came 3rd at QTC73 and QTC74, fading slightly at the QTC75 finishing 7th.
For 1976 a new Timschal(2) proto was built, also van de Stadt, not certain but probably a fore-runner to the Oceaan 24. She finished 12th at the Corpus Cristi QTC76 after a dns in the first race failing the motor test She also took part in the QTC77 but don't know placing (not very good).
1979 George Nissen designed his first IOR yacht. That would be the third Timschal and to downplay his first design attempt she was namned Timschal Schwamdrüber(3). She finished 19th at the QTC79.

 

I like the look of that Nissen Timshal boat.

Contributors and readers to this site might enjoy some of the articles on my new-ish blog site (see signature below), it covers a mix of sailing events in NZ and short feature articles/photos on various IOR boats. There's a lot to go and I've been side tracked by a few races recently, but the latest feature is on Terrorist, picking up on some of the recent photos posted here of her restoration.

 

I would think you would. It almost looks like a direct descendent of the 2nd gen Whiting QTs that we had here in California.

What was it Laurie Davidson called them, connect-the-dots designs? The designers like Whiting (and in this case Nissen) would draw the measurement points and then fit the hull lines in between. Made for some bulging, distorted looking things.

Of course there was some skill involved, since there were a lot of people who tried to connect-the-dots and had no success.

 

I remember the 2nd Timschal from CC, it had the propeller at the bottom of the keel. I think it was hydraulic drive with little motor cast into the keel. I think there was a prop depth rule they were trying to manipulate. Would hardly move under power, they'd be out there motor screaming, barely moving. Instead of sailing before the regatta they spent all their time working on the engine and doing speed runs, seems to me they did miss the first race. They finally got the engine tweaked enough to make enough power to pass, rumour was it was on alcohol. Also had black decks in TX in the summertime, heard that they were hard to sit/walk on.
Seemed like sort of a Farr 45d south sort of hull shape, but heavier so it had more sail

 

I guess it was more the overall look of it that appealed, the classic long transom, broad stern and fine bow, I didn't discern too much shape distortion from that photo but I'm not too familiar with Nissen designs.

The discussion by sean9c re the propellor/engine issues with Timschal are interesting. With some of the bigger heavier boats there were some efforts to get a shaft drive extension (or something like that) down into the keel to maximise the prop depth for the EPF measurement. As best I can figure the rule did seem to even out the relative costs and benefits of various prop and shaft installations but there was probably a lot of optimisation going on in this area as much as any other.

I think too that there were often a few hasty engine modifications at various regattas while crews tried to get their motors to achieve a speed under power equivalent to the square of the L measurement (or thereabouts? - PaulB?). Certainly Candu II came close to not qualifying for the Half Ton Cup in Trieste with an outboard that took a bit of tuning, they passed the test in the end by just .2kn.

 

There were four Waarschips participating at the QTC73 in Weymouth.
Three sailed under British flag, Waart (10th, she would reappear under Dutch flag at the QTC75 ), Golliwoog (23rd) and Last Tango (30th).
In addition Kremer himself was sailing Waarschip to a 19th place. He had previously participated at QTC69 placing second to the original steel hulled Listang, not the grp Listang II which after finishing 5th at the QTC70 was to be re-rigged and re-measured as a 1/2-tonner finishing 3rd at the HTC70, sailed by one Rodney Pattison.
There were no German boats participating besides Timschal(1).

A German Waarschip participated at the QTC71, Go Go, GER 228, Knut Saalman, finishing 24/30.
Should your info about the two German customized boats be relevant for QTC74, they did not for certain finish top 15. QTC72 had no German participation.