TP52s

*Whistle* What an IDIOT!!!! Outboard+Wooden Dock? Ouch. And look at that dinghy...lol, what the heck kinda storage is that? I mean, I guess it's ok but still, kinda odd looking. The shore power cord is tied around a deck cleat! And this idiot is placing a fender so high up on his boat that it'll do nothing...nothing at all. And no fenders that I can see on the starboard side whatsoever. Jeez, this guy is some kind of *****.

 

The poor Honda... I feel for ya, little motor.

Seriously, there's a lot of incompetence out there. I've seen 30-footers attempting to tack into the wind with spinnakers out on their poles; $500k yachts moored to the end pier with two 1/2" ropes and no fenders; a 28ft cabin cruiser that managed to bury both its drives in a sandbar a good two hundred feet shoreward of the warning buoy. Some people just don't get it....

 

These people are just idiots with money...or just biiiiig credit card loans.

 

Don't want to get into the Frank thing as it defies logic. I just like to look and sail boats of all types. The Rangers are very nice boats some are fast too. However the 22/23 are a bit slow and rate similar (220 - 240 phrf - depending on who and how they were rated) or below the Mac26. This is not to say that they are bad boats in any sense, simply that they are not that fast.

PHRF are ratings don't tell the whole story and obviously a well sailed and preped slower boat can beat a faster boat not so competently sailed.

 

Yes - Larry and Lin Pardey next week end Lake Union Boat Show.

 

sailsmall

Frank, you obviously have a well thought out agenda, and I like it:

1. Ban all sailboats over 45 ft in length from participating in all Puget Sound sailboat racing activity.

Actually as a Board Member of SSSS last year I came to realize that as long as folks want to sail them we should provide courses. This took a bit of sole searching but the minority gets representation in a proper society and proper leadership listens and provides. We had a founder write an article in the Ship to Shore explaining that the club was meant for 30 foot and under monohulls and multies when it was first founded. But that was over 30 years ago.

2. Name names and pass on unverified gossip. (Although I doubt many would be offended if it were to turn out that young Mr. Visser really is badmouthing West Wight Potters.)

The owner of an 18 foot Potter who attended the training was offended. But you have verified the problem with your doubt. If Mr. Visser had been a member of SSSS he would have been viewed as a poor steward of the society and sport. If he wantsto give training that is supported by SSSS he will need to represent the pocket cruisers just as I have represented the big boats. Those Windward Leeward courses would not have happened on my watch without my support even though I was duty bound to support them.

It is a big sea but only 20 percent of the new boats in America are sail boats and only 2 percent are racers of those and likely .02 percent are the big boats. This harsh reality is presented in one of this months sailng rags. But that .02 percent is making most of the noise that is holding the sport back. Remember that the TP52 owners group was claiming that on a market value basis they should be getting support from US Sailing. I complained about that because on a market value basis Mac26x cruisers have a larger value and have little or no support. Until recently that is.

Makes sense to me. If I could attend the big meeting tonight I'd make the motions myself.

Tuesday. Not today. Olympia Yacht Club. Do come but I suggest you come prepared to have fun and not poke fun.

Guess you'll have to do it instead, but they should pass easily once a man of your distiction has endorsed them

There is no need to make waves. Things are developing as they should. The fat lady is singing.

"What sets the Pardeys apart is their approach, summarized in their mantra: 'Go simple, go small and go now'.
Good Old Boat
August 2005

Many are looking forward to their visit next week. (Lake Union Boat Show) There is also an article in one of the rags about how sailboats with big wheels can not be sold by the brokers. The consultants have been training prospects that big wheeled boats are usually the sign of a race boat and used race boats are usually problems waiting to happen. This article was on the new SC53 which has been designed specifically to cross the line from racer to pure cruiser. Its a new age of rationality in sailboat design. Big boat racing crews might as well take up Golf. You will probably find Mike Visser on the golf course these days. You will find those worth getting training from on the Santana 20s, the Tasars, and even the Catalina 30s. Yes we have a serious Cat30 racing this year - all female. As I pointed out last year, the largest fleet in SSSS is the Catalina fleet and yet they are made to feel unwelcome on the courses. This year that will not be the case. So Catalina Clan - pay those race fees.

The other part of my well thought out agenda is to follow. We are now racing under the 05-08 rules. That means anyone can broadcast the starts including the coach of the Macgregor and Catalina fleets. An extra shot a minute from the starting gun on the A fleet. What a joke. Everyone in a boat and listening on shore will know the starts. We progress as a society when information that is suppose to be known actually is. We follow the new 05-08 rules with these broadcasts. Does anyone think otherwise?

Did you know that Canada provides the greatest amount of imports to the US much of that in oil and natural gas. We are such a silly nation.

 

Frank, where in the RRS does it state that anyone broadcast starts of a race? Please be advised that if you can't state the specific rule that allows this and you try, you will be protested.

 

Actually, if you go back to the SSSS fleet of the mid-70s, not that long after the Society was founded, you'd find we had half a dozen boats over 30 feet in our races. At one time there were two Yankee 38s, a Swan 38, a Spencer 42 and a Cal 34, all but one owned by people who had been sailing in Olympia since before the Society was founded. Your knowledge of our history is both spotty and highly selective to suit your opinions.

 

Actually, if you go back to the SSSS fleet of the mid-70s, not that long after the Society was founded, you'd find we had half a dozen boats over 30 feet in our races. At one time there were two Yankee 38s, a Swan 38, a Spencer 42 and a Cal 34, all but one owned by people who had been sailing in Olympia since before the Society was founded. Your knowledge of our history is both spotty and highly selective to suit your opinions.

Of course. But it is a fact that one of our Founders reprinted an article stating that under 30 footers and multihulls were the ephasis on day one. Forget the history for now.

What is different now is the emphasis on Windward Leeward courses, an emphasis that some of us opposed because it limits planing possibilities on the newer designs and slows progress in developing modern designs that do plane because for those designs to become popular in the US there must be courses appropriate for them. These are the same triangle courses used in the Olympics. Fortunately the new Windward Leeward courses that have attracted such class acts as Tripp Gal - er not - are only the bouy race courses and the Society has so many Inlet and Island courses that these bouy courses are of lesser concern to the Future of Yacht Design.

I have concluded that there are two reasons that the Society has grown where other sailing clubs have withered. First there are the Bylaws which best I can tell have been almost copied by the newly reoganized US Sailing. These put the Board in a lesser possition than the Membership and are directly related to Roberts Rules of Order. (a Pacific Northwest developed work of art also adopted by the new US Sailing) The Bylaws are also an example of what is written in The World Is Flat.

We have the flattest organizational structure of all. Every Member represents the Society, is authorized to speak for it and is its steward. There is no need to get permission to speak from a "superior" as there is at other organizations. Those afraid of being responsible for the Society - like Mike Visser and the PHRF board Members who attend all our Meetings are not card carrying members. Niether are the very few Life Members who do not also purchase full membership. I want that to be well known. Those who are not Full Members represent other interests. They are not necessarily friends.

What I saw happen last year is a minority of members and non member outsiders influence the Board and train them in the ways of the big boaters, the ways of the disasterous Seattle entry in the Americas Cup, the ways of the east-are-leasters when it comes to sailing, the ways of those from the family home of the Bushes and the "connected" from Connecticut. The closed minded. These ways are not the Society's ways.

Our ways accept any who are interested in Sailing and South Puget Sound. Now that Washington Bay (Shamish Sea) the area that includes the San Juans is being called North Puget Sound our geographic territory can be seen to be quite large. We have many members who sail the Columbia gorge. We are the most influential sailing group in the Pacific Northwest and it is time to use that infuence.

The other theory on why SSSS is so great is that the PHRF Raters at other clups are so biased against the smaller sailboats which often have retractable foils. Our shining example here is Sudie Parker. She has done more for diminishing the sport than likely any other by her likely use of Jim Teeters VPP in rating decisions and her offer to "Help" get new designs a higher rating. Argh. She refuses to fade. Tripp Gal I will not engage you on sacred Macgregor ground. Stand here to defend yourself. Sea Hag has litterally generated a group of sailboaters that will never race in a PHRF event again. She likely also has encouraged sailors who want to race PHRF into seaking another rater which is what they get when they join SSSS. See this and see SSSS as salvation.

I will be distributing IRC material at the Tuesday meeting and as a Member represent the Society in so doing. Huzzah Huzzah. Lets Fly.

 

I will dig through my notes and get you an answer. This was my understanding from Dick Rose who of course was responsible for writing the 05 08 Racing Rules of Sailing. Perhaps I can get him to post directly. In any case, only a fool would consider protesting this. Radio broadcasts of starts are common at most clubs, it is safer, encourages new racers to race, and there is a group of accomplished gorge racers that will compete on our courses in the winter (they do not race on the columbia in winter owing to conditions) but they require such broadcasts.

 

Frank,
You do understand that the official signals are still the flags and not the gun. Also, under 2005/2006 SSSS rules that RC is not required to answer all hails and For recalls, all they have to do is yell the sail number. The RC is in No way required to hail by VHF. The rules are as follows:

5.3 When Courses are designated by the Committee Boat, one or more flags will be displayed to designate one of the preset courses in the section of this book showing buoy race courses. In the event of a conflict, the written courses shall prevail.

8.1 Individual recalls will be signaled by an appropriate hail from the Race Committee Boat, which will include sail numbers and boat name if possible. No other visible or sound signal will be made. This amends RRS Rule 29.2, Individual Recalls.

12. Communications
In fairness to all competitors, the Race Committee is not required to answer any hail from contestants. No hail will be given for improper finishes.

 

Why do you not like small pocket cruisers, Frank? They're an interesting concept and work well in practice, unlike moderately sized pocket cruisers just under thirty feet.

 

"Likely" this and "likely" that... Frank, if you're going to slander someone, do it with conviction. Otherwise it just sounds like you're making **** up.

 

Have you considered that he IS making this **** up?

 

you know, this whole thing seems a bit screwy as in reality someone would have sued someone by now rather than continuing to slug it out on the Internet...