cheap 12 volts!!!!

My original point in all of this was to discribe how I had made a fully functional generator and electrical system that has lasted a good amout of time for a small fraction of what it costs to do it the alegedly "proper" way. I thought there might be other poor (relative to other yatch owners) people who might benifit from my experiences...and go sailing! (with electrity). I trust people to make their own assesments of safety etc. I have had years of service from this setup. To me results matter more than regs and theorys.

 

terabika Why would you do that, In canada there are portable generators that produce 12 volts and 120 volts at 1500 watts for around $200 with a top mounted tank. You need to find a good woman to spend your spare time with.

 

Jimslade, I would do that because if you look closely you will note that the amperage on the twelve volt side is only 8 or 10 . I know it does not make sense that the total wattage for each voltage is disimilar but it was explained to me thus by a generator tech repair guy at a manufactorer; High amperage in the 12v side requires muchheavier windings and the trade off is wieght. Evidently, the market cares more about wieght than having lotsa amps at 12v.....se what happens when you let weak women buy things in the marketplace?! Also, the cheapest I have seen is 400bucks for a genset....then I would have to get a heavy duty bat charger and there would be efficiency loss bouncing from 115 to 12v and blah blah blha....plus, I like to make things A feeling of self sufficiency

 

Jimslade who make these 200$ machines?

 

bulldog generators. I think that they are made in china. they work very well. 1500 watts 120 60 amps 12 volts

 

Ok, some numbers here...

1500 Watts at 120 Volts is 12.5 Amps

1500 Watts at 12 Volts is 125 Amps

P=IV remembering some simple physics... also V=IR
thus P = (I^2)/R therefore, since P is dissipated power... we need lower resistance windings (ie thicker and heavier) to carry 1500 Watts at 12 Volts without dissipating enough power to melt everything.

Sorry Jimslade, the site I found for Bulldog Generators had nothing below 2000 W
http://www.generatoroutlet.com/bulldog_intro_page.html

It seems to me that if you assume a current limit of 12.5 Amps, we have a 1500W generator at 120volts, and 150W at 12 Volts...

so for once I'm agreeing with terabika, even if I do think he didn't do it the safest way,

Tim B.

 

I remember a story of a daring Frenchman with a wooden or just one leg and a withered arm going to sea on a raft built from discarded refuse. Seems I think his cost was zero well not technicaly zero as when the raft broke up in a storm out in the ocean it cost him his life. But! He was SAILING Hahaha lol lol . Guy told me once "Stupid is as Stupid does". Sure does seem to fit this. Say wot.

Jim "not killing myself so i can stick it to the capitalist gods"

 

being what i call a ""budget boater" myself ,,i can understand the idea of doing what u have to do to get on the water,,as long as its safe!. Some of us simply cant afford to g out n buy the latest "widgit' to solve a problem n have to come up with creative ways to ""git r done".Having been forced to choose between not boating at all or doing what i can afford i chose to do what i can according to my budget. I saw a piece on the net a year ago on that on the lawn mower rigged to an auto alternator,,while i wouldnt use it on a gas powered boat,,since my boat is now electric powered i think it would work for me fine.please dont look down on us modest in cost boaters guys ,,as we're just trying to do what we can to enjoy a great hooby too!

 

Terabika, I'll try to be nice about this (unlike PAR, who, although he is very knowledgeable and generally right, is not particularly polite in shooting down such ideas.)

The reason why a marine generator is what it is, is because in the confines of a boat, there is water and there exists a high probability of fumes collecting. This applies to on deck as well, hence why propane tanks are always hung off the swim platform away from air vents. It is also the reason why you must run your engine room blowers before starting up- if there's fuel fumes in there, then when the starter solenoid fires, the fuel ignites.

Marine generators are designed so that they cannot make sparks. Regular gas engines make sparks. So do car alternators. Sparks make gasoline fumes explode. So we don't use anything that can make sparks inside the boat.

But your gizmo's on deck, you say? So it's exposed to water. Lawnmowers do not like water. Cars have very elaborate drainage systems to keep water out of the engine bay. Boat equipment is designed to survive getting splashed without short-circuiting.

Your speaker wires, then. One's marked, so they meet code? Unfortunately, the code requires several dozen colours representing different loads, their purposes, the safety margain of the wire, and what's live under what conditions. These are standardized so that anyone who understands boat electrics can safely use, trace and fix any system.

Are standard household plugs OK? No. Remember, you're surrounded by water. Water is conductive. Water comes on deck and down the hatches. When this happens, the GFCI outlet cuts out the short-circuited appliance. The standard household plug keeps providing power, so now all the water in the boat is live.

The regulations are not in place as a cash grab or as an Orwellian-overlord power play. They are in place because a system built to such specs is safe and can be proven so. Also, your system as it stands would automatically void your entire boat insurance policy.

Hopefully this makes clear why things are the way they are, and why nobody else gets their power by hacking a lawnmower with a '70s Dodge.

I'm a low budget boater myeslf. But, I do all my stuff according to CCG TP1332 (1999), the relevant code for small craft in Canada. My electrics are homemade too, using non-spark switches, proper wire, a secured battery box, etc. My runabout has nav lights, engine start, spot/docking lights, horn, VHF, etc. It was very cheap to install thanks to a good discount retailer near here. But it's done correctly, to code, with everything properly mounted and secured.

 

bulldog generators is in stouffville canada

 

Well is'nt this terrible! here we are destroying a guy for making his own generator of sticky back plastic and rubber bands, yet when it is mooted (on other threads) that people should be regulated in their use of vessels, any form of control is shouted down as terrible and against everything that boaters stand for! Wow I like the consistency! Just remember guys you must be consistent about everything at all times (it's colour coded [the red bit of plastic IS NOT the same as the blue bit, just as thick maybe , but not the same, it's red for chrissakes] and there's a regulation about it, somewhere)

The only people who DO NOT have to be consistent are the "Urine Extractors" it's a nasty job but someone has to do it - and I'm willing to take up the mantle, don't like it etc)

You hang in there 'terabika' and blow yourself apart, you have a right to do this wonderous thing! Oh yest and the lawnmower should of course remain loose and free to enable you to trim the weed from the bottom of the boat for use as a salad at party times! :idea: Not that you could ever go to anybody else's party 'cos your colour coding is all wrong -you'll get nowhere if your not colour coded properly!

 

What is the difference between his homemade generator and one of those cheapo {$200} store brought generator? This guy at least make good reading material.

 

Actually apart from the colour coded plastic and some 200 bucks not much (the great beauty was he got up a few noses of the high and mighty - I'd make a generator out of horse manure for that worthy course)

The place he upset me was with his statement that he was sarcastic - him sarcastic, he's a boy learning!

but the p**take was good!

 

Actually there's quite a bit different between a land based generator and a marine gen set, let alone the contrivance of Terabika.

This is a rather old thread started by Terabika in August of last year. His last post on the whole of the forum was also in this thread a month later. Some intresting humor can be found of his other ideas in different posts, by him.

This was his last attempt to rattle the "powers that be" (his words from another thread) and an effort to piss off the "price controllers of the world" (also his words from another thread)

He seemed to have a reasonable head on his shoulders, but elected to bluntly disregard clear safety issues, then tried to flaunt them in the face of the masses as a plausible method to "outwit" the regulations (or as he preferred the "capitalist gods") thinking incorrectly that the regulations were attempts to limit his free will or something equally as silly.

I'd long since given up on the fool, hoping I was lucky enough, not to be berthed next to his boat, the night it erupts into a fireball. I'm a pretty reasonable guy and very open to new stuff, having experimented with chainsaw driven gen sets myself.

It's a sin, he doesn't spend as much effort and energy in doing a proper job, as he does spinning his conspiracies theories. Frankly I'm glad his rants are well past. It chills me to think a newbie could buy into his ridiculousness, try one of his hair brained ideas (he's posted several) on their boat and get hurt. It was my intent, to scare him off and I make no bones about it. This is an ID free place, though many have names and reputations (I'll stand on mine) and advise should be at least reasonable. Speaker wire power cords, strung outside the cabin are things, I felt shouldn't be conveyed, without strong discounting from me (in the very least)

 

I think he should mount his home made GEN next to a fuel tank in the bilges, leave it for at least and month and then fire it up, that way he will blow himself up and stop bothering the people who use this site for USEFULL information and topics