ocean conditions are changing due to Rapid Global Climate Shift

Generation X is surprisingly unconcerned about climate change

 

Regional effects of global warming (Wikipedia)

 

Many of the people that write about climate change have never lived near the ocean or even been camping in the tropics.
So first let me tell you a story, not exactly evidence but experience and common sense if you live it.

When I was a kid living in Miami Florida 40 years ago, there were 300,000 people living in our county. There was one car per family, one tv, and one air conditioner, there was 4 tv stations. So one got real bored and did stuff like skin diving, spear fishing, lobster catching, clamming, pole fishing, climb trees, jump from bridges into rivers. We would build rafts and cross the bay, half walking, half by swimming. Biggest problem was sea urchins. As we got older we also hunted, made out in the bushes or beaches with your favorite girl and climbed coconuts and mango trees. We would also go camping basically on the side of the road in an empty lot next to the ocean anywhere. It was actually pretty nice.

Today there are 3 million people in the same space, 3 million cars, 3 million tv, 3 million air conditioners, 500 tv channels, billions of electronic devices, not a single piece of empty land that is not over crowded. There are still lobster, no sea urchins or clams, coconuts and mangos are an expensive purchase. Most of the trees have been replace with parking lots. And it is hard to find to find a lovely place to make out that the police won't chase you out. So what is the lesson here.

1. Sometimes the past was better, but we can't go back. All one can do is move somewhere else.
2. There are lots of problems that have nothing to do with Co2 and global warning. Overpopulation, or shall we say overcrowding in some areas is source of most problems.
3. Miami used to be cooler, there was lot more trees. Huge trees, in every single piece of land. But between developers and politicians that want more revenue per sq ft, all the trees are gone except in some parks, and even those have been trimmed. Many people the first thing they do when they buy a house is chop the trees down.
4. Most of the marine creatures were killed in the bay not by overfishing but by the Army Corp and their relentless dredging, and build of waterfront properties like the port, and other government facilities. We also have a sewage waste processing plant the dumps millions of tons of crap into ocean right outside of bay everyday. 99.9% is treated but it is still a daily ecological disaster. Every major city in Florida does the same thing. This is far bigger that Co2 in air, but no one talks about it.

5. THIS ONE IS VERY IMPORTANT. I can tell you this as Marine contractor having rebuilt many seawalls and properties, which also include repairing foundations in structures in or around water for over 20 years. WATER DOES NOT RISE, LAND FALLS.
Land is always falling into ocean, the weight of the soil, rock is moving down to fill the empty. It is caused by gravity with the help of tidal forces. Your waterfront property is sinking everyday just a bit. Over a period of 5 years it might by 1/4 inch, may be more. One day the whole thing collapses and you lost a million pounds of soil. It is called coastal erosion. Hello, this is very simple. It is a never ending struggle. You should not live next to water if you can't afford to fix your problem. Hurricanes and storms also act as accelerators to the eventual. Nothing to do with Global warning.

So while you all debate global warning, I am going to sit under a hard to find coconut tree, look at the falling ground and stay in the shade and read a good book. Too bad I don't fish anymore, they are all contaminated with the chemicals used to keep algae growth down and whatever else they spray in the water here every month.

Ps. FYI Imaginary Numbers - There is a solution; plant more trees, real education about how nature works, and getting kids involved in appreciating nature. All the studies on Global warning and taxing CO2 are not going to accomplish a thing except hide the real problem.

 

mydauphin, here is an earlier discussion about whether sea level is rising or land is subsiding (or uplifting, or eroding).

Your idea to get kids involved is worthwhile, but by the time they grow up and are able to make decisions to do anything constructive too much time will have been wasted. Sorry, we really need to fix the problem ourselves, not pass it on to the next generation. They are going to have plenty of problems as it is.

 

Completely and totally wrong, verified and absolutely confirmed by satellite and water level readings globally. All subsiding land and erosion factors accounted for. The below is, put quite simply, either an outright lie or a delusion, take your pick.

As a very good example, the second largest tidal barrier in the world, the Thames barrier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Barrier), after just a few decades, has already proven to be insufficient against sea level rise which in that region has been about 8 inches per 100 years recently, so a new barrier is in planning. BTW when you read further, land sinking is fully taken into account. They don't spend this kind of £mega-loot unless they absolutely have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mydauphin
5. THIS ONE IS VERY IMPORTANT. I can tell you this as Marine contractor having rebuilt many seawalls and properties, which also include repairing foundations in structures in or around water for over 20 years. WATER DOES NOT RISE, LAND FALLS.
Land is always falling into ocean, the weight of the soil, rock is moving down to fill the empty. It is caused by gravity with the help of tidal forces. Your waterfront property is sinking everyday just a bit. Over a period of 5 years it might by 1/4 inch, may be more. One day the whole thing collapses and you lost a million pounds of soil. It is called coastal erosion. Hello, this is very simple. It is a never ending struggle. You should not live next to water if you can't afford to fix your problem. Hurricanes and storms also act as accelerators to the eventual. Nothing to do with Global warning...

 

As an interesting aside, although some land is being eroded into the sea, other land is rising, such as the Scandinavian peninsula. I was told by a friend of mine, a Swede, that the effects are noticeable within a human lifetime because part of the effect is that the land is gradually tilting, and this is causing lake shores to be altered in some parts of the peninsula.

 

Alan, you are correct, BUT - the sea is also rising, in Northern Europe alarmingly - the tectonic effects and erosion are already taken into account, which was my entire point of the post.

 

I do not disagree with you.

 

This is like 2 fleas arguing who owns the dog.

 

Unprecedented Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Melt

 

How do you manage to become interested in this --no I mean How.

Like are you one of those people that read books on precipitation or snail migration.

Philately is more interesting and that bores the pants off me.

And then you sign off -- Don't worry--- Be happy

How can I be happy when you say the world is melting.

 

Frosty, I have a question for you. If you are so very bored by this thread why do you keep reading and commenting?

If you are asking me why this topic interests me? I don't know; ask a psychoanalyst.

If you are asking me how I find AGW information, Google is your friend. Takes about 0.03 seconds of searching by Google to find a weeks worth of reading. But in the case of many stories, such as the Greenland Ice Sheet melting, it's front-page news.

New York Times
Washington Post
The Guardian (UK)
BBC (UK)
USA Today
Hindustan Times
CNN
Christian Science Monitor
The West Australian
Time
NBC News
The Times of India
Bloomberg

In light of all the scientific information available, my question is why so many people deny AGW, and of those who aren't skeptics, why do so few take it seriously? I suppose we'll need to consult that psychoanalyst again for the answer.

As for Don't Worry, Be Happy, it's an ironic statement -- and a link to a Bobby McFerrin YouTube video. Call it Comic Relief.

 

Imaginary Numbers, IN for short.
I also don't understand the purpose of your postings. You said that you want to fix the global warning issues, but I never see a solution from you. Assuming that what you say is true, what is the solution? Eliminate carbon Dioxide producing stuff. Anything you burn, or breaths produces CO2. What about carbonate soda, and even beer produces CO2. So what is solution, taxing it?

Please then tell me IN, what is your goal? If it is informing everyone of how bad CO2, then you need to work on arsenic, methane, mercury, etc... Those are easier to eliminate than CO2. Co2 is naturally occurring molecule found everywhere on earth. You expel it every time you breath.

On oceans rising and falling, tectonic movement occurs by its own forces. The weight of the water does effect fault lines, and places like New Orleans. Water is very heavy specially over large areas and depths.

Remember the shells on top of mountains and sea oil under the sea. The shells where underwater and the oil areas like the Gulf of Mexico, and North Sea where above water. Thus over millions of years what you call earth was water, and what you call water was earth.


Once again your using a microscope to examine the cosmos....

 

mydauphin,
I guess it’s easy for me to forget that some of those following this topic maybe haven’t been doing so for very long. Until May, the most active thread on the Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) topic was this one: Global Warming? are humans to blame?, with some 4300 posts and 102,000 views. It was shut down by the moderator with this message:

It seems this is probably time to close this particular thread. The people taking part in this thread on both sides of the issue seem entrenched in their views at this point, and it seems now too many people in the last page are only insulting each other and no longer debating the facts of the matter or bringing new scientific information to the table. Therefore, rather than wasting further bandwidth repeating the same things over and over and over, or especially wasting bandwidth on further pointless insults, the thread is being closed at this point.

The moderator noted that “too many people…are only insulting each other,” and many are “no longer debating the facts of the matter or bringing new scientific information to the table.”

After the Global Warming thread was shut down many of the participants moved their discussion over to this thread. So far we’ve managed to not reach the level of insults that was happening toward the end of that thread. However, quite a few of the posts in this thread have continued to merely be personal opinion, and are often off-topic. I decided I would try to increase the number of posts that were “bringing new scientific information to the table.”

So I am disappointed that you feel that I am “using a microscope to examine the cosmos.” The topics that I try to fairly report have covered many branches of science, from biology, to astronomy, to geology, to meteorology, to oceanography. I had hoped that anyone who was seriously interested in the topic of AGW would realize that the few stories that I post are just the tip of the iceberg, and would do more research on their own.

For anyone wanting a single website to learn about AGW I can recommend
RealClimate.org Climate Science From Climate Scientists

You’ve also asked what can be done about AGW. Following I will post something I’ve posted before. Towards the end you will see two sections called “What Can Be Done: National/International” and “What Can Be Done: Individual/Local.” I see there is need to update that list.

 

Top Global Warming Denial Myths

The Climate Has Changed Before…

It's The Sun…

It's Not Bad…

There Is No Consensus…
▪ Is There A Scientific Consensus On Global Warming?
▪ Which Scientists Are Skeptical of Global Warming?
▪ Oregon Petition
▪ What if the Oregon Petition names were real?

It’s Cooling…

The Models Are Unreliable…

Temperature Records Are Unreliable…
▪ Are Surface Temperature Records Reliable
▪ Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Study, funded in part by Koch Foundation
▪ Reliability of U.S. Temperature Record (summary from JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH)

Plants and Animals Can Adapt…
▪ Can animals and plants adapt to global warming?
▪ Climate myths: Higher CO2 levels will boost plant growth and food production
▪ CO2 is plant food
▪ Species’ Ranges Are Shifting Faster Than Expected


It Hasn't Warmed Since 1998…
▪ What Has Global Warming Done Since 1998?
▪ Warming Lull Caused By China’s Increased Coal Use

Antarctica Is Gaining Ice…
▪ Is Antarctica Losing Or Gaining Ice?
▪ Why Antarctic Sea Ice Is Growing in a Warmer World

Global Warming FAQs
▪ realclimate.org
▪ skepticalscience.com

What Role Does Water Vapor Play
▪ Water Vapor; NASA
▪ ”Plugging The Leaks” of Atmospheric Water Vapor in Climate Models

Radiative Forcing Of Climate Between 1750 and 2005

Global Warming Causes Stratospheric Cooling

Why Meteorologists Disagree With Climatologists

Why Global Warming Is Less Often In The News
▪ America Is Talking Less About Climate Change
▪ Whatever Happened To Global Warming

1/3 Of CO2 From Human Sources
▪ CO2 up 38%, Methane up 148% From Pre-Industrial Levels
▪ Human CO2 Emissions Less Than Natural CO2 Emissions
▪ Human CO2 emissions are too tiny to matter

Volcanic Contributions to the Global Carbon Cycle
▪ Emissions from Volcanoes, page 3 (Rutgers University)
▪ Volcanic Contributions, section 5 (British Geological Survey)
▪ Which produces more CO2, volcanic or human activity? (US Geological Survey)

Carbon Sequestration
Carbon Sequestration Projects Being Abandoned

Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change(IPCC), Publications and Reports

Climategate
▪ Wikipedia on Climatic Research Unit Email Controversy
▪ FactCheck.org and Climategate
▪ Union of Concerned Scientists on Climategate

Could Clouds Act As Natural Thermostats?

Global Temperature in 2011, Trends, and Prospects (NASA)

Arctic Carbon and Methane
▪ Thawing Permafrost Fuels Climate Change Worry
▪ Popping the Cap on Arctic Methane

Global Warming Outlawed

What do Americans think about AGW? (March 2012) & actual study

What Makes Sea-Level Rise?

Gulf Stream Slows Down, Europe Freezes
▪ Gulf Stream slowdown? May 2005
▪ Atlantic circulation change summary (Jan 2006)
▪ Ocean Circulation: New evidence (Yes), slowdown (No) (Oct 2006)
▪ What Drives The Gulf Stream? (Oct 2006)

What Can Be Done: National/International
▪ Managing Extreme Events Regarding Climate Change
▪ Confronting Climate Change: A Strategy for U.S. Foreign Policy
▪ Climate Change Policy: Recommendations to Reach Consensus (Brookings Institute)
▪ Climate Change; World Economic Forum
▪ Climate Change Mitigation; World Bank ▪ Recommendations – World Bank, Independent Evaluation Group
▪ Climate Change Mitigation: What Can We Do, Organization For Economic Co-Operation and Development (OECD)
▪ Climate Change Mitigation – United Nations Environment Programme
▪ Climate Finance: The Harvard Project On International Climate Agreements
▪ Financing Global Climate Change Mitigation; Economic Commission For Europe, United Nations
▪ Adapting to Global Warming, By BJØRN LOMBORG author of The Skeptical Environmentalist
▪Carbon Tax - A Small Price for a Large Benefit
▪Could the desert sun power the world?
▪▪The DESERTEC Concept
▪▪DESERTEC Literature
▪▪DESERTEC FAQs
▪ Desalinating salt or brackish water for domestic use

What Can Be Done: Individual/Local
▪ 10 Cool Climate-Saving Actions
▪ Energy Saving Tips for your Home and Vehicle
▪ Save Money By Reducing Residential Energy Bills
▪ Top Actions: Take Action Now; National Resources Defense Council (NRDC)
▪ How To Fight Global Warming (NRDC)
▪ Earth Hour City Challenge; World Wildlife Fund (WWF)