Buccaneer 28 Trimaran plans.

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by oldsailor7, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. lgenova
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Brazil - Recife

    lgenova Junior Member

    Buc 28 progress

    Good job 2far2drive.
     
  2. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    2far2drive.
    Thats a brave job you have on hand there. :eek:
    Are you just building one new ama ? and did you just copy from the other ama---or do you have dwgs ?
    I am surprised that the rudder is hanging outboard over the transom. The design called for an under the hull spade rudder, which leaves the transom clear to hang the outboard motor on. Hanging the motor through the deck on one side is very inefficient and exposes it to swamping.
    When the motor is behind the spade rudder the prop is sucking a water flow over the rudder which improves steering control.
    The spade rudder is also more efficient as it is below the keel, not surface piercing, and doesn't suffer from air entrainment at large rudder angles like a surface piercing rudder does.
    Just my 2C worth, :D
     
  3. 2far2drive
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    2far2drive Senior Member

    Oldsailor,

    When the boat was flipped in a hurricane she lost an ama and her wingmast. So we are just building one ama (as it stands for now). The other ama is in pretty good condition except for the half rotten deck which we have been ripping off. The insides look absolutely fine.

    Im building the ama from the plans and full size float frame sheet. The only major difference I have noticed from the other has been on the stem so we ditched the original stem curve and copied the existing ama. We are really trying to avoid building 2 but if it comes out radically different, we may have no choice.

    Im aware of the spade rudder in the design but currently we have no intentions of changing what was done be previous builder. While not trivial to do so, its more of a matter of "lets get this thing sailing". Im hoping her planned sail inventory (there are talks of a bowsprit etc) will make up for any performance loss induced by the transom hung rudder.

    Gotta get back to work :) final keel lamming is happening today and hopefully some stringer gluing!
     
  4. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Good Onya 2far2drive.
    Looking forward to seeing the final result. I don't think the transom hung rudder is going to affect the performance.
     
  5. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday 'O-7' - young-fella - it's the 'jj-geri-hat-trick' - up-north in - the tropical rainforest - (& it is - in wheelie-bins) here.

    I respect - very greatly - your experience - sailing ability & overall knowledge without question. However I do have a question - for the sake of others in this place.

    What would lead you & others to continue to believe that - transom hung rudders aren't as efficient as rudders - under the hull - ie in all the hull induced turbulation ??? c/w a foil section & profile not designed for that turbulation ?

    After all the studies, research & extensive modeling - including full-sized testing on 'A', 'B', 'C', 'D' class & some notable ocean going multihulls - no the least by any means - the 40' x 17' cat designed by David Barker. (do I recall you posting a picture of the launch of 'Sundancer' @ North Sydney just a few days ago now) done by, Bob Miller, Peter Cole, Alan Payne, Lock Crowther, & many others that sailed, raced & cruised multihulls & monohulls - that as I remember - pointed in the direction of more highly developed c/b & rudder shapes reducing 90% of all the previous 'bad-points' of external rudders k& in fact allowed for the reduction of sometihing in manner of 60% in overall area of c/b in several 'class' catamarans ??? I od - I did & recall Brian Leverton going on to win - a World 'A' Class championship with greatly reduced foil areas in both rudders & c/b & do it in a 'Crowther' designed 'A' class . These foils showed to Lock & all the others above mentioned - that - no tonly were they very efficient - they were 60% less in size as well as not cavitating nor -vortexing upwards. Those were very exciting times - back then & lead to many world firsts in designs & theory in both multihulls & monohulls.

    However back to my question - please. I don't believe that anyone has picked-up on some of those developments as some of the same old ideas are still hanging around - some 50 plus years after they were proven to not be correct. IMHO - Ciao, james
     
  6. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Silver Raven. I am not sure what you are saying there.
    Lock designed the boat with a spade rudder. I merely said that I didn't think the transom hung rudder would adversely affect the boats performance. :?:
     
  7. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Good-evening - "young-fella" - I know & did carefully read - what you said - however - I bring to your attention the - Lock - would never have been one to - stand still - with regards to development. Lock, & many others - humbly me included - went to a heck of a lot of cost & trouble to define - the new - - way to go - - I'm not stuck in a 'time warp' & Lock & Beryl would not expect that of anyone let alone me.

    My comment is that - you keep it - genuine & as Lock designed it - is not - a thing that the man himself would have done. You don't agree - that's fine - I'll not bother Beryl - until I can put - money down.

    Didn't want a disagreement of any kind - just that Lock & many others - went to a hell of a lot of trouble to get 'whole thing' to go forward & advance. I'll not build a K-40 - but may buy 1 - - if I do it will go as fast & well as Lock - himself - would have wanted it to do in 2012/3/4/5.

    New modified wing-mast, kevlar/carbon/synthetic sails - new tackable c/b - better rudder etc etc etc - - which he himself would have done & will surely be watching over my shoulder if I get that boat. Ciao, james
     
  8. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Jeez JAMES.
    "New modified wing-mast, kevlar/carbon/synthetic sails - new tackable c/b - better rudder etc etc etc - -????"

    SS and 2F2D are just working on restoring a B28 "AS IT WAS", not as some super high performance racing machine which would no longer be a Lock Crowther B28, but something else, whizz bang though it may be. :rolleyes:
     
  9. 2far2drive
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    2far2drive Senior Member

    Well there are some talks of suping her up a little :)

    We discussed building a wingmast of newer design but they look time consuming!! Mast is still being discussed but looks like regular rotating will be what we go with. Also talking about a bowsprit to throw a furling screecher out there.

    As was mentioned in the email from Gougeon bros several pages back, she was built very light. The ama we have for instance was only glassed lightly on the chines, stem and basically below the waterline. Rest of the ama was just coated in epoxy. Guessing here, but I would put the weight of the original ama around 300-400lbs. I can pick up ends and move it around a little. IMO that is pretty light for a 25ft ama!

    we shall see :) I cannot wait to get this thing ripping up the bay! We have tons of great winds here so we can really test her out! Im praying for 20kts of boatspeed.... ;)
     
  10. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Sounds Great 2F2D. Just keep it light.
    Please keep us posted on the progress. :D
     
  11. 2far2drive
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    2far2drive Senior Member

    I might have been mistaken about the weight. I talked with seastallion about it and we might be thinking 200 max. Its just bulky to move but Im pretty sure 2 guys can lift it, one on each end.

    got back to work today for a few hours after taking the weekend + some days off for a bachelor party. we glued on a few stringers and started the planing of the keel/stem attachment. progress continues!
     
  12. frank smith
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    frank smith Senior Member

    Any news on getting plans?
     
  13. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Sea Stallion has plans ---but he currently has them in use, so not available at this time.
     
  14. 2far2drive
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    2far2drive Senior Member

    Im sure he can make the plans available when we finish up here and he has some time to get everything scanned in. I used to work at Kinkos (copy shop with blueprint scanners) a long time ago so I can pull it off, just need the go ahead from the man with boat/plans.

    update on the build....

    we couldnt get fir thick enough for the chines and I really wanted to avoid laminating in place, so we found something else recomended in the plans, redwood. So we have built the chines out of redwood at great expense! We paid $300 for 60 boardfeet of 2x6. the redwood is a blast to hand plane and cut scarfs into but tricky to get the bend just right, requiring many many clamps.

    as of right now, all stringers (except upper chine stringer between keel and chine) and gunnel have been run to transom. I only have enough clamps to get one 10ft section of chine on at a time... hence a couple of more days until its all setup. getting ready to start beveling everything :)

    Photo-0552.jpg
    Photo-0547.jpg
     

  15. Marcos Henrique
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    Location: Brasil

    Marcos Henrique Junior Member

    Very good. There's a chance.
     
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