Flying Canting Keel-Extraordinary Innovation!

I had a customer that had a 45ftr that he experimented with trying all sorts, it was great for me, but not for his sailing. He now owns a orma 60 tri, says he should of done it years ago.
As Sahrpii2 says we are most likely getting near the end of the envelope. Radical experiments as in Oatley, and Speedream may well have windows of wow. I keep thinking of the final moments of the Spdrm video where it goes down the mine big time ....

 

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fng, what video are you referring to? As far as I know the first Speed Dream prototype hasn't been launched yet....

 

This is not true. Years ago you misunderstood a power comsumption study and extrapolated it to mean what you wanted it to mean. The reality was pointed out to you numerous times.

It is nothing short of <insinuation about other member's intent removed> for you to try to post this again after you've been shown it to be other than truth.

 

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You have no clue what you are talking about. Your statement is false, <insinuation about other member's intent removed>. The system can be designed to operate at any speed and for long periods of time if it operates electrically. Operated manually on smaller boats it is still at least equal to the movement of a crew. I designed numerous systems for rc models testing this concept and there is no question whatsoever that the trapeze supported wing can move very quickly either electrically or manually.
Thanks again to Rick Willoughby for his help in looking at electrical requirements!
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See "Ballast mover" below- Rick Willoughby confirmed my statements above directly to me based on this work. Note that any variation of the system can be explored using this document. Further note that the Trapwing system has very low load normally and that a slope was used here that would not normally be there making these very conservative figures. Smaller versions would be easily hand operated.
If you enable macros, the parameters can be changed( yellow only). As set it is for 2500 cycles. Try reseting for 96 cycles(one every 5 minutes for 8 hours and look at the battery required! Reset distance to say, 14' and 96 cycles leaving the ballast at 70 kg(154lb) and the battery required is .7AH! NOTE: Rick set the speed for 1.5 seconds for any distance set.

 

Now now doug keep the emotion out of it.
The spdrm link was from one of your posts. Google doyle sails cfd analysis speed dream.
I long while back with the experiments on the said 45ftr we were shown a worm gear drive from a heavy truck that would slide the container mounts. basically a fixed starter motor with a gear and then a toothed run on the unit. Lots of power draw but only designed for a short term use. This type of thing could work for your system if you can work out the power/speed voltage etc
Let the doug & paul b show continue

 

So, to "prove" your <insinuation about other member's intent removed> claim you post your prior <insinuation about other member's intent removed> claims?

If you go back and read the post from Rick you will note he is not saying the mechanism (that has never been defined) will be faster than a crew. His post was simply a study on the power consumption of an undefined system at a variety of speeds.

You don't understand these things, or you willfully misrepresent things. One or the other.

 

paul b - Just how much real sailing have you done - yourself - personally ??? How many 100's of weekends have you spent sailing cats, skiffs, ULD monohulls or long ocean racing events ??? The requirement for such negative comments - that you far to often - expound - is that you have - hands-on experience - like some of the designers that we have available.

As we all know - "empty vessels make the most obnoxious noises" suggest you consider - that the incessant din - is rather counter productive ! ! !

We are all - in this place - trying to learn ! ! ! Yes learn about the subject - not how to be as bad mannered & foul mouthed as you continue to be. I'm sure you would find that to be a great improvement in your life's outlook & so would all of us ! !

What is your personality problem. Can't destroy all our ''PMA' - positive mental attitude - or the fact that we are getting on with the learning curve ??? What is it ??? One - like anyone - would have figured out by now - that all the rest of us - will 'get-on-with-it' & continue to learn & grow. None of us will get stuck in your negative time-warp. Shame that, you really need to take a firm hold of your tools & make them work for you.

Take a careful look around you - there's - on one else - in your negative disruptive camp - except you, even the fire has gone out. Funny that - no not really. You - with all your - real, true intelligece - surely - by this time should have figered-out that - we'll all just keep learning & improving ourselves & these very valuable 'forums' ! ! Try joining us - we'd love to have your knowledge working for the good of all not being anti. Please - share your vast knowledge with us & help us to be better people, I know you can. Please

Now - have a great day - smile - be happy & lord knows - someone might smile back at you. Ciao, james

 

Why don't you post your research showing that a crew can move their weight faster than any mechanical/electrical device if this is your asserted "reality"?
Without a designed device, I don't follow either of your arguments.

 

Please list all the designers on this forum who you think have more experience than I have. This should be fun.

If your favorite "designer" is on this forum and posting things he knows are not true it should be pointed out. If not, someone will read these things and believe them. That does not accomplish anything but to destroy the reason for a forum like this to exist.

 

Speed Dream

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You mean this?! http://www.doylesails.com/news/2012/03/video-cfd-analysis-on-speeddream.html
Where it says "simulations gone bad" and "sometimes computers have a mind of their own"??! You must be kidding, right?

 

This is the crux of it. There is no design. One nice member did a very ambiguous power consumption study in the form of an excel spreadsheet.

Doug extrapolated this to mean what he wanted it to mean. He didn't understand the purpose of the spreadsheet.

There is no mechanism for anyone to actually study. Doug can't design those types of things. He makes claims about concepts as if they are something that is real. Things like inertia, friction, and the like are never addressed.

 

You must be kidding right ?
No I've done enough sailing to know it does happen, Just look at the volvo footages if you personally haven't. Just think they are full bowed machines, not fine bowed wave piercers.
'Imho' it will happen, the simulation is most likely correct and it has been worded very carefully for marketing.
It would be very interesting to see a continuation of the footage, as the boat slows and the sail loads increase, broach ? or nose out to carry on ?
Think what you like, you asked for my opinion

 

To boil it down, if I read the above correctly,

Doug L asserts a system can be designed that moves the weight "12.5 feet" "faster than a crew on a trapeze"

Paul B asserts "This is not true"

A mockup needs to be tested against crew to show who is right.

 

Funny you should mention this.

When this claim was first being made there was a challenge to Doug to put together a breadboard model of his design to show how it would work and to check the timing.

He was even asked to post just a sketch to show the layouts.

Of course nothing was ever produced.

 

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The electrical requirements calculated by Rick Willoughby for me are now at the bottom of post 169-see "Ballast Mover". If you click on it you can try your own weight and distance which can be changed-if you enable macros. Rick set the system to do any length that was set in 1.5 seconds. You can set the number of cycles to reflect anticipated use. I tried an example in the post above-at the very bottom to illustrate the possibilities.
This is 100% proof that B's comments are false and defamatory!
The system can be designed for any speed and will work similar to the way the test models I designed and built below worked albeit with and enclosed sealed wing
with buoyancy at each end(1st few feet) of the wing greater than the weight being moved .