IOR to IMS

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by sharpii2, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Frankly speaking.

    Dear Shife:

    The small weekender type centerboarder I used to own was very sensitive to how far the pivoting center board was lowered. I never tried it, but I imagine with the jib (on its fractional rig) lowered, and playing with the main sheet and the centerboard crank, it could be done. I know of several tandem centerboarders where that was definately possible. In fact, that was the main reason stated for going to that type. This was, of course, not for harbor maneuvering but mainly long term course setting.

    What I do know for certain is that my little weekender could sail up wind with the board completely retracted. I learned this by accident when I sailed into a cove of tree stumps. The only way out was up wind, so I tried to paddle my way out. The wind was strong enough to make that impossible, so I decided to 'motor sail' my way out by using the paddle and the mainsail. I could not keep the boat on course long enough to make paddling useful. So I grabbed the tiller, as the pivoting rudder still had its blade in the water, (the aspect ratio, however, sucked) and, lo and behold, I started making progress toward the mouth of the cove. After about half an hour, I had freed myself.

    I was skeptical of this little discovery, so, on a windy day, I took my boat out on the lake and tried it. With the centerboard all the way up (and it retracted all the way into its case) and the rudder blade pivoted all the way up too, I tried a few tacks. The boat made good about 25 to 30deg. to windward. Consistantly. That, of course, was a far cry from the 40 to 45 deg. to wind ward it could make with the board and rudder properly lowered, but it was nice to know, mone the less (for working off a beach, perhaps).

    My boat did not have chines, a skeg, or a cutwater.

    I know that Frank can be abrasive and ignorant at times (perhaps most of the time), but I do see a kernal of truth to what he is saying. Maybe the best sail boat 'for the masses' is not neccessarily the best sailing sail boat.

    My weekender, with its swept back shrouds, no back stays, and sagging jib (I often didn't even bother setting the damned thing), sure wasn't. But she was the boat I could afford and she did do her job.
    (she even sailed through a fleet of somewhat longer keel boats on a very light wind day with her high shouldered drifter set. And garnered a few one finger solutes in the process.)

    I have never raced. But I have had to get about the lakes I have sailed without an engine. And at one time tacked up a channel only two boat lengths wide. People came out of their cabins to watch. I don't know if a Mac26 could do that. But, if sailed by an owner who really knew her, I wouldn't be surprised.

    It seems that Frank inspires a lot of conciet as well as ire. My nick name for him is 'father of a thousand posts'. If he is so truly ignorant and false in his claims, why does he upset everybody so much. And why use so much vitriol against him. That only comes accross as pure defensiveness, making it seem like he may be right even as we (who are much more versed in design principles than him) know he is clearly wrong. Truly, better imformed people can be better behaved.

    Bob
     
  2. skinny boy
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    Location: Anartica

    skinny boy Junior Member

    Bob,
    Sometime you should try steeering with a centerboard with no sails. You are not really ever steering with the centerboard you are steering with the sails. You can change the balance of the boat with the centerboard and as such it will affect the trim and alter course, however that is because of the relation to the sails not because it is a centerboard. Take the sails down and up or down the centerboard will not steer the boat. The rudder will still steer the boat as will other things. So no centerboard steering is not possible, it is a tool that can be used but will be easily overcome by the force of the sails. So there is so little truth in the claim made by Mighetto that most people feel it is wrong to try and claim it because someone who doesn't know better may find themselves confused.

    As for going to weather without a board, yes it can be done, not efficiently, and as such the claim that you don't need it is again at best marginal. In order to be exact you need to define the scope of the sailing involved. In this case the claim was that you could sail upwind with a centerboard just as well or better than with a keel. There is no truth in that statement. Shife may have overgeneralized in his response and your correction to him is legitimate.

    Concerning the vitriol with which people seem to address Mighetto, look at the crimes to determine if the reactions are deserved.

    Let me list a few of the major ones that personally offend me:

    1. Intellectual Property Rights abuses, he has taken copyright and registered trademark property with permission of the owners and used it for his own purposes here on this board as well as on others including his own website. The site moderator for this board had to remove a picture he stole from another site and replace it with a link and the proper photo credit. Maybe you do not have any intellectual property that you use to help you make a living but others do the theft of that property by anyone who has been specifically told of their actions and continued to do it is the cause for a very strong negative reaction.

    2. Personal libelous attacks, he has attacked people personally and with the stated intent of hurting their ability to gain employment in their chosen field. He has not provided any substantiation and in fact when presented with facts to contrary of his claims he ignores them and continues with the attacks. This results in a rather negative response also.

    3. He has called his own club members cowards among other things. Yesterday he called a member of his own club which has been awarded a lifetime membership to the club because of his tireless efforts to promote sailing and racing not worthy of that. The person he attacked, I have been told by a friend who lives in the area is one of about 4 people in that area that are the primary reasons that any racing happens at all. Without the efforts of people like the people he is attacking there would be no sailing of any substance in the entire south sound area. This is cause for a very negative response. All we have to do for ignorance to win out is let it go. The attacks are unjust and not fair when they are not in a place where the others can defend themselves. In our legal system here there is a way to ask a question where one never wins, "when did you stop beating your wife?" No matter how you answer this question you are already looked at as a wife beater. It sets the preconception for everyone that you are bad. His attacks against these people he is trying to do exatly the same thing. If they respond they lose.

    4. He is doing this from a government network which means he is using a resource paid for by others from taxes to post claims that are patently and knowing false. This is not ethical and I don't think it is particularly legal, although it may be different in the states.

    Does he deserve the negative and harsh reaction, in my opinion yes he does, when someone tries to tell him to not be so vitriolic himself, he threatens them. as he did me with crap about Internet Terrorist Act and calls us a terrorist. The last time he did this I asked for the language that supported his claim and threat, while providing him the specific definition of libel and its application to his posting. He has not responded to that but has continued to attack people.

    Finally, people tried to reason with him, after enough attempts eventually for some people they just need to vent and he becomes the target because of his continued attacks and lies. So then you are right people just start kicking the dog because it allows them to release the anger for not only his crap but for anything else. The ire in many cases is therapeutic and as long as they have to put up with him they might as well get something out it of.
     
  3. Mark 42
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Seattle

    Mark 42 Senior Member

    http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/
     
  4. mighetto
    Joined: Nov 2004
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    Location: water world

    mighetto New Member

    Decision Maker

    The web site you point to was developed for the HP palmtop. I was an HP palmtop developer for many years using the artificial inteligence program PROLOG at that time under DOS 5.1. This was when HP had offices in Oregon supporting that work. There are still several universities using that program but I have not worked actively on the product for some time. From time to time I am asked to join seminars and classes that use it and there was interest in enhancing it for the last presidential election. The tie to sailing is an interesting one. The US Navy paid two consultants to develop the decision tree. I have invested in several privately owned businesses and have started and sold several. Today we are selling an interest in one. If only there was a sail boat better than the Mac26x I already own:)

    Hey - I did well at the Tourchlight 8 k. Not last this year :) Off to Ballard for Seafood.
     
  5. mighetto
    Joined: Nov 2004
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    Location: water world

    mighetto New Member

    Let me list a few of the major ones that personally offend me:

    1. Intellectual Property Rights abuses, he has taken copyright and registered trademark property with permission of the owners and used it for his own purposes here on this board as well as on others including his own website. The site moderator for this board had to remove a picture he stole from another site and replace it with a link and the proper photo credit. Maybe you do not have any intellectual property that you use to help you make a living but others do the theft of that property by anyone who has been specifically told of their actions and continued to do it is the cause for a very strong negative reaction.

    Oh admit it. The truth personally offends you. I usually post with links. Are you certain I didn't correct this on my own? No board operator has ever contacted me - which is what is required when there is an issue. But I continue to do as best I can, given this wild west we call the Internet. I now take aim

    2. Personal libelous attacks, he has attacked people personally and with the stated intent of hurting their ability to gain employment in their chosen field. He has not provided any substantiation and in fact when presented with facts to contrary of his claims he ignores them and continues with the attacks. This results in a rather negative response also.

    I did attach a hacker. Haxor - if you are he then you deserve no employment in the field. I do the profession a service by hirting employment of hackers. The facts I present, get removed by hackers. Look at The Future of Yacht design on Sailing Anarchy. If they do not get removed then the entire boards get shut down permanently - like Sailnet. I am ready to fire.

    3. He has called his own club members cowards among other things. Yesterday he called a member of his own club which has been awarded a lifetime membership to the club because of his tireless efforts to promote sailing and racing not worthy of that. The person he attacked, I have been told by a friend who lives in the area is one of about 4 people in that area that are the primary reasons that any racing happens at all. Without the efforts of people like the people he is attacking there would be no sailing of any substance in the entire south sound area. This is cause for a very negative response. All we have to do for ignorance to win out is let it go. The attacks are unjust and not fair when they are not in a place where the others can defend themselves. In our legal system here there is a way to ask a question where one never wins, "when did you stop beating your wife?" No matter how you answer this question you are already looked at as a wife beater. It sets the preconception for everyone that you are bad. His attacks against these people he is trying to do exatly the same thing. If they respond they lose.

    Dan Decker is a coward. I told him to his face before alerting the world. Nonetheless he will be a fine commodore of SSSS. We do not all grow up to be the men we would want to be. Not all of us can stand up to Sudie Parker AKA Tripp Gal. It is Tripp Gal that would shut down sailing in South Puget Sound. In fact she shut down half a Toliva Shoal race. You know something, Dan Decker is not a coward. He sailed the second half of that race - this in defiance of Tripp Gal - I forgot that - good job dan. Oh My God - Dan is the Man!

    Regarding Steve W. Again, we do not all grow up to be the men we would want to be. Not all of us can stand up to Sudie Parker. Life time membership is an honor. It does not bind the lifer to our Bylaws. Steve represents PHRF first which means giving SSSS the shaft if that is what is needed to keep IRC out. The shaft like not bringing up our Bullitine Board. What influential club doesn't have its own board. There are none. SSSS has become to influential. I say yea lets use that influence to change PHRF and to support IRC.


    4. He is doing this from a government network which means he is using a resource paid for by others from taxes to post claims that are patently and knowing false. This is not ethical and I don't think it is particularly legal, although it may be different in the states.

    Why do you asume I do not have permission. Of course I do - it is in writing. FYI, the state of washington objects only to my use of the telephone, which I no longer use. It costs the State of Washington nothing for me to use its network and it cost me nothing to use cell phone. No one but you sees a problem and this is because you do not want to see the truth.

    Does he deserve the negative and harsh reaction, in my opinion yes he does, when someone tries to tell him to not be so vitriolic himself, he threatens them. as he did me with crap about Internet Terrorist Act and calls us a terrorist. The last time he did this I asked for the language that supported his claim and threat, while providing him the specific definition of libel and its application to his posting. He has not responded to that but has continued to attack people.

    No response outside of a written one is binding. I continue to ask you to write me. If you are uncomfortable writing me because you do not want me to know who you are, you may contact the Seattle Better Business Bureau and put in a complaint against Mighetto & Associates. We have never had a complaint and I have been posting on the internet for over 30 years. I am responsible for some of the first distance learning programs that used the Internet. The field does change rapidly. But nothing I have posted raises any alarms that I know of.


    Finally, people tried to reason with him, after enough attempts eventually for some people they just need to vent and he becomes the target because of his continued attacks and lies. So then you are right people just start kicking the dog because it allows them to release the anger for not only his crap but for anything else. The ire in many cases is therapeutic and as long as they have to put up with him they might as well get something out it of.

    I am not the enemy. South Sound Sailing Society is not PHRF. PHRF needs to back down and will. You watch. There is more pie to slice up when the pie is bigger.
     
  6. WildCherry
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    Location: bama

    WildCherry Junior Member

    why?

    Why do we continue to let this guy Hijack threads? Frank, Please stop posting. Just read what others have to say. We dont want to hear your plagerism of someone else's story. We dont want to hear your story. We dont care.....

    Back to the thread topic please.....
     
  7. mighetto
    Joined: Nov 2004
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    Location: water world

    mighetto New Member

    Hijack

    Hey, give it a rest. See http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21317. I am bigger than life. No one can stop chatting about me.

    They come from all over the country just to get a photo shot of mighty Murrelet. IOR to IMC is one step to the topic of IRC. I have written extensively on this topic and hope to contribute more. The posts by skinny boy are out of line. It is best to deal with them before moving back on topic.

    My how I am missed on Sailing Anarchy. But seriously, I haven't posted there in months. We have new truth seakers raising the flag of true Sailing Anarchy now.

    Trust me on this or not. But your point is well taken. Club matters such as my last post should take place on the club bulletine board - only wait. There isn't one and guess what it is the charge of a PHRF director who the Commodore has designated as club editor to have that thing running oh - two months ago. Believe me there are many that would take over his web resonsibilities including Skinny Boy. Tripp Gal doesn't want it and she is a ball crusher. :) :) The hills are alive with singing :cool: For me

    I am a man of constant sorrow. Only troubles do I find. I met a gal that gave me troubles. I have but one ******** now.

    Truth seakers, review The August Seahorse. In Seattle, it is SeaFair. There will be a brief intermission from the trials of mighetto. Hope to be racing in "my series" The Secretary's Series on Wednesday. May I suggest a Hawain theam like the duck dodge. Its all about having fun lads.

    I claim post 52 as my prize.
     
  8. Shife
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Michigan

    Shife Anarchist


    Frank you are not missed, you are made fun of. The reason you haven't posted there is because you were kicked out and you know it.
     
  9. usa2
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    Location: Maine

    usa2 Senior Member

    you have to wonder "does he know it?".......
     
  10. Mark 42
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Seattle

    Mark 42 Senior Member

    Congratulations!
    I'd like to suggest this book... very inspiring:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1891369113/103-9552460-9746221?v=glance

    I (thought I) was an extremely unathletic kid...
    hated runing until I discovered Hash House Harriers...
    eventually (indirectly) led to running a couple of marathons.
     
  11. Mark 42
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Seattle

    Mark 42 Senior Member

    Click the picture for more info.
    [​IMG]
     

  12. Mark 42
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 189
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    Location: Seattle

    Mark 42 Senior Member

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/search.php?searchid=299570&pp=50&page=1
     
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