MSA surface/tunel drive

Discussion in 'Surface Drives' started by IMP-ish, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,161
    Likes: 53, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Unrealistic Expectations.... My own boat was disposed off because it didn't performed as planned. It was supposed to go 40knots, only made 38knots. So they scrapped it, I bought and repowered it. I am very happy to go 18kn. Such is the cutting edge.
     
  2. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,292
    Likes: 225, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 758
    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    http://www.francehelices.fr/surface-drive-system-uk.htm

    Have a look at a well proven surface drive for fast boats. Considered as very reliable. And you'll understand immediately the differences.
    The MSA has too many different metals in the water and all these bolts and directional hydraulics exposed...ouh la la...
    Have a look at the shaft couplings and the propellers...no match with the MSA.
    Very very expensive.

    Fast boats surface drive fully trimmable are very expensive. Happily there are simpler surface drives that work quite well and far less expensive.

    France Helices makes very good propellers. No fisherman in France would go out without a Baudoin engine (10000 (ten thousand) hours TBO easily...) and the France Helices transmission.
     

    Attached Files:

    1 person likes this.
  3. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 38
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 25
    Location: slovenia

    sinus Junior Member

    But you need two and this is too much for lighter boats. With one will be dangerous ride.
     
  4. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,292
    Likes: 225, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 758
    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    There are many surface drives with one propeller. The France Helices also can be used alone. Where is the point of dangerous drive with one propeller? The only thing is the lateral torque as always with any one propeller configuration and there are several solutions.
    The lone system (a part the jet drives) without lateral torque is the dual prop (counter rotative propellers) like the Bravo III.
     
  5. MechaNik
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 139
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 62
    Location: Greece, Italy

    MechaNik Senior Member

    I don't see MSA making huge claims in performance over a surface drive. It seems they are more after the stern drive market. This would make the material selection on par with stern legs etc and I think I can see some good advantages coming into play.

    One claim I have never understood is that they call it a surface drive using a 50% wetted prop...but then they say the cone stops aeration and provides a solid stream of water exiting the prop????
     
  6. sinus
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 38
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 25
    Location: slovenia

    sinus Junior Member


    l will try to explain what we find there.


    At ride we trim drive in optimum level for speed and remember in which position it was trim gauge. Later when we have boat on trailer we put it on same trim and we find surprise. All drive except nose cone it was over bottom line. Only bottom 1/3 prop it is look under bottom line. It mean that at our boat it is less than half prop in the water line when go faster (far from maximum, but more than ca 30-40 mph). Momentally we use prop PT OFX5-21. It have probably 2 inch to small pitch, but o.k. for first tests.

    All surface drives made lot of water drops. At classic surface drive this drops made roster tail, but MSA have covered prop and this drops same time smothed padle whell phenomenum and push all this drops back. It mean better efficient like with roster tail, where loose lot of drops-energy becouse ofroster taill, which spray in other angles than backwards (action-reaction). Same time it is less dangerous for chine walk.



    @Ilan Voyager;
    For classic surface drive you need speciall bottom if possible with steeps, or CG back much is possible. If not, you have no possibility to trim boat. Same time you need flaps. CG back to much is not good.
    Classic single surface drive at 80 + mph? Possible, but not common. You need skiled driver and really good prepared boat. Perhaps one pasasanger to much in wrong position and...

    At MSA you have smoth ride becouse of cover. Same time it is easy to trim, boat CG it is possible to put in ideal position for safe ride and not for trim possibility. It bring safety and less fuel consumption.

    Do not understand me wrong please! I am satisfied custommer and far away of any dealer. I not made advertising, my whish it is to hear much *** possible reall informations round of this drive.
    Nobody in this tread ask you for France Helices. Personally will never use it. If will future bring badd experiences with single MSA, will go on double Arneson for example.



    Materialls?
    I hope that in time betwen Norway demo and present they improve surface preparation to avoid corosion. I find lot of zinck plates round of drive for example.
    Other surface drives have lot of diferent metalls too. MSA is not exception there.


    In our oppinion it is the biggest minus for MSA montage. It is hard to put it on existing cut of for Z drive and this probably "cost" them lot of cusstomers. Price it is on the level of other high quality surface drives. At least with Arneson we did not reach lower price like at MSA.
     

  7. jmiele3
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 2, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 73
    Location: Philippines

    jmiele3 Junior Member

    I would like to add, since we were brought into the topic, that though the France Helices SDS could work as a single shaft, we generally do not recommend it, and will hesitate in selling a unit as a single shaft (primarily due to lateral torque, but there are also other reasons).

    That said, every vessel is different, and the application, use, and operation determines the ideal drive... and it is not always ours.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.