Help How heavy is my 70ft boat

This boat bears an uncanny resemblance to one in an old thread that I thought was titled "Who needs a Naval Architect" ( but I cant find it in the search options) - where they tried to launch it, but it floated so low that they had to abort the launch and add more hull.

 

I don't know if the proportions are throwing me off or what,but it sure doesn't look like 70' to me.

 

The below picture will give you a better idea on the length.
The price is very appealing ($500k), but it is one thing buying it, but there is still a lot to do to finish it, move it and sell it.

 

$500 000!!

Oh, how the plot thickens.

 

I'd proceed with some caution, that may seem cheap 'c this may have been a 2.5-3M boat 5-6 years ago when finished, some of these style of power multis can be "problem children", after a quick search to boatpoint & "innovation" there's talk of optional lifting foils.........big power & small running surfaces can be a problem, smaller sisterships in commercial service etc dont seem too quick & she looks like a cut & shut stretch of a 50?'er. Definately get some qualified Naval Arch advice, you really want to know how this vessel will turn out when launched, Ive encountered similar vessels & an old timer aquaintance had done some "sorting out" to similar. Here's an apples & pears comparison discussion.... http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/powerboats/so-very-very-cheap-62-footer-why-41675.html , different I know but food for thought. Jeff.

 

The boat was built by Ray Bloomfield who was a well known engineer of mining equipment and passed away in Feb 2010. I am not sure if he is related to Stu Bloomfield, from Crowther Cats, but the boat is a Crowther design (so I have been told).

I am sure that this type of project would suit a retired person who wants a live a board boat, but I do not think there is much money to be made if problems are encountered.

They need to sell the boat, so they can sell the factory where the boat is located. You can see it HERE on Google Maps and get an idea on how far it is from water.

The dreams of a boys project and to make a bit of money have not materialised.

 

Oh yes,thanks, that definitely is 70' from that angle!

Few thoughts I'm sure you know:
-still needs hundreds of hours more work
- I know of a beautiful $5million+ build cost 63' cat that has been on the market 5 years and can't even be sold for $1.1M...this thing will never sell for a million all done up pretty. And that's even years from now IMO.
-if you could low ball the hell out of them....say $100k including it being in the water,then it may be worth considering.
Otherwise it'll cost them huge money to dispose of it.

At anything other than very cheap,it seems like a retirement fund drainer and divorce causer to me.

 

Do you have a 'not to exceed quote' from a yard to finish the work? Or even a list of the work that needs to be completed? Again I would try to get a FMV of the completed hull, subtract double the amount of work that needs to be done, then cut that in half as my max price. And yes that includes the cost to move it into the water.

 

I have no quote from a yard as the plan was to have me and a group of trade qualified mates to do it as a project during our holidays. The remaining work is not too difficult and most of the items were onsite to complete.
Moving it and selling it are the 2 major roadblocks. There is also the unknown items that may occur, such as stability, design flaws or items that have not been done correctly like fuel tanks, motors, etc.

 

If you think you know the designer, and Crowther is well respected, they should have records of this build. If nothing else they should be able to tell you what design it is, and perhaps send you a set of plans. Which would include things like weight, trim issues, perhaps wiring diagrams, ect.

 

Qualified in what trades? Nothing kills a boats value faster than a residential trades approach to marine fit outs.

How many men and how many holidays are they willing to give up?
Hundreds of hours in just the wiring to be lain. Interior fit out will need the same.
Plumbing, fuel, septic, steering, reefers, galley HVAC etc etc

I would be very cautious of a casual agreement of labor to finish. All parties will will need to be vested by stint of guaranteed return on their investment of time. If the project drags on with no up front payment you may be forced to let out labor to outside contractors.

I doubt it- have you inventoried everything needed to complete against what is on site?

Materials from this stage of build can be surprisingly expensive. Have you run numbers for the build out to finish?
Do you have access to wholesale purchase price points for materials, fixtures and gear?
Will you pay retail when you go to a upholstery shop to fit & sew for the entire boat?
Do you have a firm ideal of the level of systems present in similar vessels & their cost from purchase to installation?
Do you think you can market with no electronics? If not, cost?


Have you contacted any brokers to see if they have a market & can move the boat?
Specifically- what market use?
Sunset charter booze cruises? Personal yacht? Crewed dive charter?
You will need to know as you fit out so that you meet the market you intent to sell to.

Brokers fees, storage costs, yards fees etc. Does she need painted? Will you need to contract this and at what cost?

I think the risk is well lain out by posters.
To mitigate potential loss- double all of your known costs/liabilities, add 50k-100k for costs your are missing, half your potential market price.
If you can purchase at a 'in the money' price, proceed.

 

Dude. 500k, in today's market can get a finished running boat better than that one, into the water running, it will cost you $100K to finish this one.Looking at new pictures, I am a little worried about height vs widthog boat, cats can't handle slot of weight.

 

Have you talked about spending your holidays working on a boat the next 3-4 years with your wife/gf yet?

I have known of a few boat restoration/building partnerships and heard of more,and they have never ended well.

There's always one or more persons in the group who does more work than the others,and gets frustrated.
There's usually another who has other issues,and rarely shows up to work. And there's usually another who thinks his time/work is more valuable than what the others do.

How do you decide what the (hopeful) profit split will be 2-5 years down the road?

My advice is if you want to keep your friends-don't build boats with them.

 

Well, ....

1. Designing mining equipment is one thing, designing an attractive boat is another. Even as carports/lawnmower storage, those roofs on the back are mediocre, the rest might generate complaints at a condo association.

2. It is not new construction, it is a boat that has been modified. The darker marks are not where the gelcoat has been roughed up in preparation for the antifoul bottom paint, the dark IS the old bottom paint and the white splotches are the gelcoat underneath the old bottom paint. Either way, the sharp line at the top would strongly suggest that that was where the waterline is. Or was.

3. Have a qualified boat surveyor survey it. Don't tell whoever owns it anything about what the survey revealed.

4. Why can't the boat be jacked up, a trailer backed in across the field directly behind it until it is under the boat and the boat lowered onto the trailer? Why is a crane needed to put the boat on a trailer?

5. Cut the upper honeymoon cottage off the boat and it might fit under all the powerlines, as well as look better and be more stable. If you really want it there, re-attach it after the boat is in the water.

6. If an old $500 shed is in the way as far as moving or launching the boat, get it out of the way and then replace it with a new $700 shed. Adjust the figures as needed compared to the supposed $32,000 fee quoted.

7. As a buyer, go with the preposition that the boat is a huge obstacle to the primary mission of selling the factory. Tell them you had a certified survey (or don't tell them) and would more or less be doing them a favor by removing it and any possible environmental liabilities, but seeing as how it is an undocumented build of unknown quality of materials and workmanship with very possible stability and operating issues combined with unknown and very possibly substantial, unknown costs, $210,000 would be a price fair to everyone.

That last might have no basis in fact, but facts seem slim in this situation.

BTW, it is hard to tell, but do both those props turn in the same direction?

 

Thanks all for their feedback.
This is the great thing about asking these types of questions on a forum, you get a lot of experience and opinions, all very valid and appreciated.

To answer some of the questions:
There is no way to back a truck into the tight space, even if we remove the shed, as the boat is too wide to fit between the buildings. The only way is to get a crane.
We met this morning to go over the crane requirements and they estimate the weight at 22t, but will need a 220t crane to get enough reach to drop it into the water. We will also need to create a 15mx15m pad for the crane with a dozer into the paddock as it is not even.

I have also found that the boatramp they were planning to use has been modified recently and will no longer allow a large trailer to back the boat intot he water. They essentially split the boatramp in half and stuck a wharf in the middle. A crane is the only way to remove the boat from its current location, onto a truck and into the water.

Removing the flybridge does not look like an easy task, but it is a good suggestion. It may however be cheaper to remove the power lines.

As for the remaining gear, there is a lot of stuff.
All the Batteries, Simrad gear for sonar, plotting and radar, VHF Radios, several water pumps, all the toilets, sinks, taps, ovens, cooktop, dishwashers, custom mattresses, bar stools and TV. There is also the fittings, bolts, screws, doors, hatches, ducting, SS handrails and some lighting. We have not done an inventory on all the stuff as there were 3 very large piles of brand new stuff in boxes, but I would not be at all surprised if there was 70+% needed to complete. All the 240v, shore power and Generators are already wired up, as is the hot water, sewerage and freshwater. I may also consider putting in Air conditioning as it seems to be a standard feature of this type of boat.

The only items that I know will need to be purchased is the paint for the inside/outside and flooring/decking. I also expect there to be some wiring and internal lighting, although some has been run already and the remaining may be in one of the boxes.

I do not agree with the statement that you can buy a 68ft boat BRAND NEW for $500k, there is nothing under $3mil in that size range, so I do not think the price is unfair, if it was floating in the water. The problem is the list of unknown problems that may occur.

As for completing it, that is the easy part. All my mates are experienced with boats, but not boat construction. We have a builder, plumber, electrician and myself who is a mechanic and master mariner. We all own boats and know they can be a money pit.

As there is no further boat building required, we do not think the remaining jobs to complete this boat are beyond our skills. We would engage a marine mechanic to commission the gensets and motors and a spray painter to paint the boat. All the prep-work for painting appears to be done. All the surfaces are sanded back and smooth.

We expect a 2 month build time to completion.


As for the statement that the boat is not new, is incorrect. The entire boat is brand new, never been in the water. All the motors, gensets, rudder, props and shafts are all brand new. This has been confirmed by several independent people and if you could see the boat in person you would agree.

I know the props are counter rotating (thank you for asking this).

Again, thanks all for your inputs.