Just want to be updated

Yes and I thought a lot about just publishing the lot, as why have this old software laying around on old harddisks and for me, boatsbuilding is a part of my life that is over. My concern is offcaurse that it is easy for me to use the programs as I know the parameters and there are details like what kind of mesh entities it must be, so using the functions on the wrong entities can turn out a frustrating experience.. --- So someone who know th AutoLISP it is written in, can either rewrite for a better overview or will be able to use it right,
Basicly there are two programs ; one to draw the right type of mesh from as many "ribs" as you need, and then a program to unfold the surface both directions. If it is used right the unfolded panels form the exact 3d form, but to draw a 3D lapstrake ask a bit more than average. and I am not sure that extra program are easy to use. Well knowing AutoCAD it is easy to do all this, but maybe I could just publish the ready made full-scale plans I have offering a choice of several but smaller dinghies and prams.
I came around the limitations you see with most of the software of those day's, but after I stopped building, I havn't used the programs at all.

Still this is only part of it, 3dh is something else ; -- it were ment to deliver the framework for the unfolded panels designed without the main limitations where some I guess, still is a barrier today. Sorry my fast reply, have to spend some time with another of my projects. If anyone want to see the remains I collected on Yahoo groups you can visit one of several groups where there are a few free plans at ;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/

( this ask membership that I give automatic, but the other groups like this one, are public ;

http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat-boatplans/

My FaceBook site is:

http://www.facebook.com/per.corell

If it still is difficult to grasp, check this image ;

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/8372431/sn/353546493/name/n_a

Those ribs don't need to be manufactored by a huge NC mill, -- what you put into that, can aswell be printed full-scale for each individual frame --- then you spray-glue the full-scale print of each frame on a sheet and cut from the lines. Realy I do not think that is so difficult it must make everything much more easy, when all frames ( two and two identical except for the overlap slot ) are there full-scale and ready to jigsaw. ---- Yes the edges on some will need to be angled, but that you need to do anyway whatever what frame system you use, and the best of it from a hands-on point of view, that while paneling, the ribs stay where they are fixed, you don't need 800 clamps to hold individual frames in place.

Also, please know that english is not my prime language.

 

I see the point of Rwatson and agree. How can you justify that without any engineering analysis?

There are at least 3 components that go into manufacturing. Material, labor, and the process. Lets take out the preparation (engineering) process which you seem to imply is easy.

Structural designers know that the more ribs and triangulations, the stiffer and lighter the product becomes but as you cut more more stiffeners to reinforce a panel, labor cost (and time) goes through the roof. It can be shown in a graph where the cost of labor and materials cross and it would only be viable if both are balanced in terms of cost.

Airplanes (metal) have more stiffeners than boats because it was meant to fly. And in order to reduce labor cost, they resort to automation (process), a more expensive approach.

In evaluating a process, cost is also a factor. The article I have posted showed promise but from a production standpoint, knitting and triangulating every segment would be an engineer's nightmare much like the "birds nest" structure in China.

Cored (or sandwich structures) seems to be the most economical process for high perforformance boats and aerospace. It provides the simplicity of H beam structure, easy to fabricate, and less supporting structure owing to the inherent stiffness of the panel.

 

Here's an update. Somebody beat you to it.

http://www.gizmag.com/archdaily-201...aign=d41664ef6b-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email

 

Great, -- and thank's -- but again Im'e not compleatly sure this is guniunne 3dh. It cirtainly inspired it but I seen a lot of structures, where it mainly are the looks of it, and not the best of it the fact that underneath the fancy surface, is something that replace timbers and foundations of what use to be placed ther, but as by magic just "grow" while the 3dh framework is assembled.
Now it realy isn't that many decades ago, that ships were build with very little calculations. Much reverse engineering are there when we talk about the calculations and still there are some, who do not need them but somehow can "see" how a craft will perform --- beside I don't want to take the most exiting out of it there are skills that are as good as mechanic calculations. Anyway those functions are a part of most CAD programs today -- point to the entity, and the function yield the results you know will come, just using the right build in function.
Sorry it was 2005 the chinese published 3dh and my article, since then ( not before ), I seen several promising projects, but not the ones that display a full understanding of 3dh as a structure builder. See that is the main thing about it, it deliver the structure, the foundations and that is realy not difficult to understand, unless you are refusing to see anything but what is here allready. Thank's.

 

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/564708_389898284355158_121072864571036_1527347_2029128976_n.jpg

One of the more artistic builds with 3dh that today can be generated with "Rhino". I place this image becaurse there are several who are curious about Cyber-Boat and the final issue there, 3dh frameworks. The image show a very primitive 3dh, what you must remember, is that 3dh don't just offer a shell of ribs, but make frames that can hold floors and engine foundations, all you need is to understand the method.

 

Sure - I understand the 'both sides' part of the concept - but can you imagine laying out an interior on diagonal ribs ?

Unless you could triangulate the crew - you would have to fit them into triangular spaces.

One of the advantages of transverse frames, is that they correlate to livable spaces. The plumb and right angled interior compliments and enhances similarly arranged frames.

Talk to anyone who has tried to do cabinet making inside a geodesic dome ( another version of this) and you will understand what a nightmare it can be,

 

Yes, -- but this issue are one of those things that is difficult to explain but easy to realise when you see the structure. Realy that is the barrier with 3dh, that when you know it the complex issues become simple, but if you do not know it, thhse are realy hard to grasp.
Now again a house are easier to understand becaurse you have a shell there to -- walls and roof, and you have floors and walls and stairs. Now you proberly are surprised I mention stairs but they and walls and floors describe a paralell to what is also possible with a boat frameset.With a house I use to explain it like this, that while you assemble the sections it is not just the outher walls that grow, but also frames for floors,walls and even stairs. I placed one simple house design, and there if you look closer, you see the "beams" for floors and walls are also replaced with 3dh frames. --- so with a house I use to say that foundations for floors and walls, as by "magic" grow" while you assemble the framework, no one lay the beams or place the vertical supports they are part of the framework.
I do not have so many 3d renderings that point to this neat sideeffect, but if you look closer to some of the examples, you can see how frames reach out further than the shell. Some examples even leave hollow spaces surrounded by framework and these are carefully projected -- they are Solids that is subtracted the 3D solid model and could be volumes being a fuel tank, an engine foundation, a .... well there are no limits, frames will be generated, it will be a bit more difficult to assemble the frames, but there are way's around the trouble with that. I will look for examples as this is a sideeffect that make the difference and make 3dh an interesting option --- becaurse, when you can beforehand carve out volumes or prepare the floors and walls, even make the beds or rather the foundations for those things, then you have some quite new way to put two things together, to build and most important ; use the computer in a way that is not just the old methods rewritten into something exactly alike but faster, you simply have something that work well with computers and challance the brave old methods. There should be nothing wrong in that if it offer a much better result.

What you must realise with this method, is that the projecting wotk different from how you are used to when you draw the hull. The hull is a Solid and to get the thick "shell" you need to generate the framework, you must first draw the outher hull plus deck as one Solid, then you must draw the internal volume and this is maybe a bit difficult to explain, but that is the volume insidt the inner paneling that also have a "thick" deck, in fact it is a smaller boat inside a bigger one so when you subtract the inner from the outher, you are left with a thick shell and in that shell is where the 3dh frames are generated by simply slicing the shell. --- that way you can proberly see, that the frame continue in the deck frame.

Below here, I place a rendering of a Longboat hull seen aft. The faint color show the outher hull and the clear colors show the inner hull or inner paneling. Inbetween these there are a hollow space of honeybomb. Like a huge surfboard boat shaped. But to realise how simple it work, whan you as deck beams into the honeycomb framework is not that difficult to see. instead of the tradisional curved ribs, they become rings. at the top the frames carry the deck the bottom are the hull -- and no it is not a problem building the framework from those rings, there are several way's to open them and close the rings when the other frames are in the slots. That ask a solid of the outher hull subtracted a hull of the inner volume, and when you understand that, try image how a floor can be added and be within the section when sliced, ---
Yes it is different than how a boat hull are designed. But in a CAD system you can point to two points and get the distance, you can ask the weight of the solid that remain after you subtracted , and you work full-scale so plotting a section make the full-scale plans for that section if it can be cut in sheet material, you can just cut from the lines. It is a bigger job as you have to model everything, but you also get the plans that cover everything.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...57713779_1184722724_33478551_1155682318_n.jpg

Below the Longboat before I replaced the frames with a 3Dh framework, --- please note, that the tradisional ribs are generated the exactly same way as the 3dh framework, I just turned the front view 45 deg first to one side then sectioned paralell with that new plane down the hull. Then I made a mirror of that new plane and sectioned down the hull to get two sets of frames ( you understand why later, but I could have just mirrored the first frames. Still here uou see the hull opened, but with tradisional frames ;

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...44313444_1184722724_33478535_1221611349_n.jpg

 

But this is not a geo Dome, in fact when you study 3dh you soon realise 3dh is the opposite of a Geo Dome. They are as different structures as structures can be -- they sometimes can look a bit the same, but please open your mind ; the Dome are a surface thing 3dh deliver the structure for that A dome is a "net" 3dh are made by slicing a Solid a particular way.

Yes I can image assembling the framework and there are several way's to do this in a smart way. You see if a frame become a trouble you just cut it and from the 3d drawing, you just cut laches so you can put back the frame with a lash one or both sides. That will not weaken the framework but make the framework assemble much easier. Also a reasonable doubt are the overlap slot, even many 3dh frameworks been produced since I first published this idea -- at a time where no framework of this sort was known -- but even you today can find many 3dh frameworks, the main trouble are the problem that measures are in fact to presice -- it is difficult to slide 10 assemble slots at one time as the frames easily get stuck. But this is an idea that is still under develobment and one of the points where it can be altered so it become much easier to handle, are the assemble slots. The overlap are quite simple but if the whole section covering the overlap are cut out instead of making the halve notch replace that, with a halve circle cutout, then you can produce multible units that fit where the overlap slot was before. Please think about this again ; I talk about a simple two part fitting, where each part are placed on each frame where they meet. The overlap are still made with good fit but there are slack around the fitting. Then when the frames are where supposed to be, the fitting are fastened.
Now please don't blame me becaurse of this addition --- frameworks are made allready and this detail only make it easier to assemble the frames, it is a simple fitting and cheap to produce, but it will open the possibilities with 3dh. And think of how simple 3dh allready are compared the often difficult presant methods. I know a drawing much better would explain this "assembleslot-fitting", but if you understand the idea, this small "assemble helper" move the slack needed for easy assembling, from the overlap slot to fastening the fitting, when frames are in place.

Now another thing ; please forget about the geo dome, -- this is the opposite of that. First of all many 3dh frame structures allready prove it's use, and secondly the geo dome are a surface thing, where 3dh offer the structure. Not the surface but the foundations and no triangulation are needed only sliding solid entities in a way much simular to how it is allready done. Please look closer to how each rib are supported by several others, don't you think this work much more practical, than ribs that need external support while they are paneled ?



And ;





To prove the various software I made for myself ; to go around the limitations in allmost all other software where silli limits offer only to few sections to make a Solid as example, unfolding and advanced edditing -- brought it there to do it better than the old way's, that I designed lapstrake 3D models, unfolded those and build the boats full scale, and tried the rigging.. Not many lapstrake 3D designs around, and even fewer where the panels been digitaly unfolded and offered one to one on plot paper ready to cut..
Only 3dh is just better than the old way to put two pieces of material together, to build a structure.