Hedley Nicol Trimaran Plans

a foots about 12in and i'm in agreement with that option, my only worry would be how well these keels are really built, and there strength, but i will take a good look at them when i remove some of the glass,
if i'm really lucky who ever added the extra depth to the keels may just have did a dodgy job on them like every thing else, and he just may of added a piece to the keel and not extended the 3 bolts in the keel, then i'll just cut the extra depth off, see how she feels stock and make changes when next hard stand op comes up,

 

Sounds good Taow. If he used something like carriage bolts to tie it on they will be out of line of the main keel bolts which could help you spot them.

 

hey guys need some plans on a U-seating and table, any one got any links of use?
cheers any help would be greatful,

 

I'm putting one in but I've drawn it myself. The best advise I can give is to make mock ups with cheap ply to check the space. I drew up the whole interior but everything got revised here and there as it translated from paper to the boat. Reading the Pardey's account of bothering Lyle Hess with changes and ideas until he sent full size sections put things in perspective. They then changed most of their plans as they built.The biggest seating and table you can do is to have seats up the sides with a fold down seat in front of the opening to the forward cabin. You'll have to wait awhile to see my approach. Right now I'm installing the galley and nav area. The stock dinette option can seat on the end from the opposite bench but takes up lots of space. You might try looking at tris for sale online to give you ideas. Everything you do affects everything else in a boat so think about how everything works together and remember to keep it light.

 

yes its just getting close to start working on her and the refit, so many thoughts so little space. im prob going for the one table 2 x 3seater chair either side the table, port side. fridge/freezer either behind the chair, doubles as a seat for the nav desk.(would need to under stand nav set up to vision this). stove to the opp side to fridge. and to quote you "Everything you do affects everything else in a boat" so true im finding every time i come up with a good layup, something else kills the idea, it might fit but either makes things to tight or or just doesn't fit with out to much screwing around, so screw upthat drawing on the the next and so on so on, but a few more weeks and ill start, on the keels, removing the extentions, building the dodger, looking at what to do with the rudder, either repair the skin fitting and leave as it is, or what id rather do is move the motor back 2 feet, move the rudder under the rear aft cabin. will all come down to the dollars in the end, as the dodger means raising the boom and the mast and maybe lowering the cockpit floor, which would work well with the moving of the motor, and so many more things to tak care off, its all getting to be a brurr at the moment, im just hanging ready to get on the hard and look at whats not gonna happen and getting on with whats going to happen, i got 2 months on the hard stand and im not wanting to be up there any longer, so i can take off north for the winter then cam back and maybe put her up again and do so other things or finds, but its anoying sitting her waiting, ive cleaned her bow to stern, removed well over 50mt of house copper wiring and half of that was conected to the batterys but lead to nothing, and just being poorly tied off to some piece of wood or other wiring, heres hoping when i get to an older age i still give a **** when it comes to making repairs, cause the last owner sure makes it look like he didnt give a crap, or have an idea one or the other. but we shall see how things go one shes on the hard and im hard at work on it, then i can set back and enjoy her fully the way she should be, not tired up here waiting, i need to be back out in the wind i say .
id like to drop back into nossa and stay a week or 2, not sure i enjoyed the bar crossing last time

 

Interior

Taow - I would hesitate moving your engine rearwards. I moved mine forward to centre the weight better. Remember Hedley designed the vessels without diesels so the more forward the better especially if you have davits. Re the interior - I have been on Wanderer's with a U settee and table and thought that it was a bit of a waste for the room it took up but each to their own. Normally you have to lift the base up from the floor to get enough room for seating and then there can be a headroom issue.

There are a lot of books to give correct seating and back angles sizes for standard body types = Only the Fitting out to Go by Simpson is not to bad, but the Library will have something because house chairs etc are the same sizings whether it is a table chair or a settee.

I put in different sized fore and aft settees to allow entry into the front cabin with a half fixed table and a drop leaf on the walk through side. Basically copied what I did on the last Tri I built. I then offset the entry to the front bunk and on Shawn's advice, beefed up the bulkhead edges to spread the main beam loads.

I am presently finishing the wiring and plumbing, building doors etc so hopefully mid next year looks realistic for a launch. I also stripped the boat of all wiring and took out kilo's of old useless unconnected wiring.

Regards

 

Most of the inboards I've seen in Nicols are behind the main bulkhead but I agree with triwanderer about not wanting the weight aft, in any case they get in the way of the quarter bunks or aft passage not to mention using payload.....some Cross tris have J or L shaped settee/tables. They are raised for room but that means you can see out windows too. Horstmans often have a small dinette on each side with a passage in between, these are raised also. My galley is becoming a bit smaller so it can be on one side opening up the other for the nav area. It is actually easier to use as you are more braced. Important for me as I usually do the galley chores (we can't catch any galley slaves) and my crew doesn't like to slow down. I've seen some Nicols where they've extended the galley area forward into the main cabin area but I'd hate to lose the room. I also had loads of extra wiring but the boat was stripped when we got it. I'm thinking of eliminating lots of wiring by going with battery LEDs for lights and perhaps portable LED nav lights for the same reasons-more simplicity, less energy loss etc.....and you can still use rechargables to keep things green. Not getting as much done during the holidays but we did get the deck fittings we had removed reinstalled. I should add the suggestion not to try to do everything in 2 months but pick one or 2 projects you can finish if not missing a sailing season is important-everything does tend to take longer than you think it will if you don't have uninterrupted time.

 

im going with a seat either side of the table, raised off the floor, on one side forward of the cabin. also moving the forward entry off to the side. ill make up a new frigde box that will fit in behind the seating to where the nav deak would be. and pending the new dodger layout will find the new nav space. galley opp side rear, shouldnt need to extend it with the new motor placement and there comes the moving of the motor, it gives a whole lot of extra cabin space as soon as the steps are gone, and yes they all seem to have to motors in the aft section, so not sure moving the engine back a foot or 2 would make to much problem, and can be balanced out forward with some extra chain added on the anchor line. head & shower in the aft cabin along with a good size sink on the inside stern wall. my davits are on the port side off the cockpit and the front of the tender ties off on the rear side hull, im thinking of making a davit to sit on the rear of the port side hull to improve it some what. i dont use the aft 1/4 berths other then storage space not the nicest of sleeping next to the motor i would think. but thats where the fuel tanks and battery bank on the other side, but thats the short and curlies about it, keels, dodger, rudder then motor with the fit out in between jobs. then the mast goes back on to fit and it all comes together nice, well and smoothly works well in my head, cant wait to see what really happens haha. but i got a good mate, me and my lad to doing the work and 2 good mates i chuck my ideas at, and they either cut them down there and then or work on the idea with me, which is good cause then i safe wasting time on ideas that wont pan out, oh im also going to run a battery forward to put power right at the windlass, bank it with the starter battery as its only used when the motors running any way right.


ill be doing LED through out, already removed the 10w bulbs and replaced with LED strips i made up, but as im going full through out new wiring there only temp mounted for now, but still saving on the power can and have run the forward light one in the main cabin and the engine bay lights for days with little to no notice in power loss. and are the futur. they work well and give off good if not great lighting. even on a spreader facing down as deck lights. a few of the side walls of the cabin and you got deck surface lighting.

ok but of a question to drop out there,
*how many batterys do you have as house bank batterys and what other batterys
*how many would you like

at moment im running 4 batterys as a house and starter, with a back up start power. when i head off for a few weeks months or even days i want enough power to run all the instruments, a radio, cd/radio, dvd player all cabin and or deck lights, so im thinking of going with a 3 bank house, one start battery attached to the windlass battery as the start bank, id really like 4 house, but room and weight are a concern? ps the windlass battery does not need to be a huge battery so please dont think im wacking a huger house battery forward, but it is a good idea, and comes from a man i well respect and i like the improvement it will make on the running of the windlass and having that power right there not running through 5mt of wiring before it even gets to the windlass.
but be good to hear others thoughts on there battery needs or wants to have etc.
cheers triwanderer ill have to give you a bell when i get her on the hard if you wanted a look over, or i think you know or i told you where i am now, your more then welcome to drop by, just give a call ill run over and pick you up from the jetty, should be a great new years view this year
cheers cav

 

Cheers to you Taow. You know me...2 batteries max and a windlass would get in the way of my exercise though a manual might tempt me. We try to sail like loading an airplane and over the years have found fewer gadgets make for funner, faster cruising. Really though a Wanderer isn't a Twiggy but it all adds up the same so be careful. Sounds like you have some good friends helping. The way we sail isn't what most people do, the condo cat crowd wouldn't like our approach but it fits with the Newick attitude towards modern inconveniences. I'll be getting some photos developed and will post some of the window install. It's true about seeing what you find, we had to re glass the cabin sides and replace the fronts when we went to install the cabin windows. The install approach to the windows worked great though and I've been pleased with the results, the delay wasn't fun but doing things right saves time and money in the long run. Triwanderer has it easy working on land under cover! Working around the weather is a bit like hopscotch having to do things in different areas when the break comes. NW winters are always a challenge for boat building.

 

Battery

Cav - don't know how you manage building in the snow. I remember reading old Piver and Brown books/articles of people building in the snow and having to heat the resin on a stove.

Taow - my anchor winch cabling comes back to the engine start battery and by the wiring schedule I used BS2 cables as the length was about 7.5m. The winch control box is in the hanging locker behind the anchor locker and I have both foot up/down foot switches and up/down control at the helm. Very handy as I sail by myself often. I have 3 house batteries that I centralised and are under the starboard settee berth. I will be putting on a 200watt solar panel that fits on top of the davits. I used a BEP battery distribution cluster with VSR that allows me to emergency parallel as well as automatically switches the charging circuit between the start and house batteries. A good unit that a number of mates have used on their multi's. I got it direct from BLA so it was cheap, about $150.

I'm still wiring so will miss NYE at the Little Ships Club where a number of friends are taking their multi's too. Next year lol.

 

No snow yet, just rain. We glue up the framing for the panels and precoat on land then install them. Check the humidity, use warmed resin then kick on the heaters after the panels are installed. The cold can help on a complicated assembly as it gives more time to get things in place. With heaters on things cure in a normal amount of time. Works for the interior, things outside are regulated to spring. We have a power cord run out on the bowline from shore so it is more like a floating or beached shop depending on the tides.

 

haha cav, happy nw year to all
yeah i thought on using the manual bar for some fitness. till i saw how slow it was, remembering that the windlass here is home built, so maybe a shop one works faster. donno. and think my jobs list will be refined more and more as the day gets closer to the hardstand. but i have my main work list then extra work list, by then i will be getting close to floating again time. think im just high strung at all the time to sit back and think, oh that would be great or this would be great. i just hope i get what i need to get done, that it looks good and all works well, 2batterys

triwanderer i think i would have rather been doing extra work as well, but we did take the tender round to the fireworks, the frontest front row seats you could get i think we had was a normal night but for the fireworks.
and 3 batterys, yes i think im going with 3 house and 1start, 1 windlass.
this waiting is driving me insane.....

 

We are trying to put things together after a series of weather systems have sent us very non boatbuilding weather. In one week we have been hit with snow, the big storm dumping 14 inches on us, a ice storm, several gales with another on the way. Power is a dim memory and the phone lines have just returned after being out for days. And now the power has returned! I shoveled the wing deck of the Nicol before the rain and ice doubled the weight. Our research showed 1 cubic foot of dry snow weighs about 7 pounds and the wet variety is about 14lbs per cubic foot. With several hundred square feet of deck and a 14 inch snowfall those numbers can add up, the empty boat got shall we say lower on the waterline. The boggling thing is the power melt that is seeing the snow wash away in just a few days leaving everything beyond soggy. Mother Nature dropped enough trees and branches to keep us in firewood next year....The high point of this last week is Paddy sent me a old materials list for Cavaliers letting me compare them with Vagabond MK2 scantlings, very similiar except the higher freeboard amas now have to be made 3/8" just about doubling their weight and some connectives are heavier. With the taller sheers the Cavaliers are more than 500 lbs heavier but I'll have to crunch the numbers for a closer tally. I also found a error in a previous posting of mine where I described the keels as being shallower on a Cavalier, they are the same but the higher freeboard makes them look smaller. Accompanying the materials list was a pamphlet of the Nicol range showing a profile and layouts of the different models. I'll get these digitized and post them after we dig out. The interesting thing is that the Wanderer with the long amas is rated for more load than the Cavalier, the performance cruiser, because of the wider stern with 2+ tons load allowed. A tremendous salute to Oldsailor for giving us something to do by lantern light , after the days of sawing, shoveling and scrambling those tenuous connections to civilization back into place.

 

Cavalier Mk Ii

FROM ROBINGLEN

We have a Cavalier MKII( built in 1965 --1971) in our front yard which we have been itching to overhaul/rebuild for some years now, but personal survival has sort of got in the way. However we have the original 'blueprint plans' sans the full-size bulkhead patterns, which are not really a problem, as we can loft the sizes off the existing ones if required to do so.

The double diagonal hull structure is still sound but the decks have taken a bit of a pounding (poor condition ) over the years.

We sailed this craft off the S.A.coast for a number of years and she proved herself to be extremely seaworthy and sea-kindly.

However, two major points of concern were:-
a) the bulkheads in the floats(amas) are too flimsy causing hull flexing.
b) the rudder was either too small, or not quite far aft enough, for good control, unless the sailplan was very carefully balanced. ( the boat is ketch rigged - which can be balanced very well, but needs to be adjusted closely for each point of sailing).

On her refit, the above points will be attended to and we will definitely add a small wheelhouse to the cockpit. Another point of concern, now I come to think of it, would be the attachments of the crossbeams to the floats. The depth of the bulkhead at the point of connection to the float(end of wingdeck), I consider to be too narrow, and should need an extra mini-bulkhead led into the wings at both fore and aft of the main & rear crossbeam bulkheads. This should 'beef-up' the spot where some Nicol tri's appear to have parted company with their floats.(This includes his own on his fateful loss at sea).

It will be interesting to hear comments from other Cavalier owners.

 

As far as I know your boat would be a Cavalier as they didn't design a MK2. Get a copy of Francis Smith's book Pelinta. In it they cover the strengthening offshore boats required. If you sister the ama ply ring frames with frames, 1/2" - 3/4" and cover the wing frame to ama joint on the open side with your new ama frames with a ply connective bulkhead as you describe you should be fine. match the connective sub bulkhead thickness to the existing ama frame thickness. At the main beam the center beam of 3 attaches to the bulkhead, for extra strength carry wood frames from the other 2 down to the keel and install the connective sub frames. The other alternative is to use your ply ama frames as a core and work out a glass/fiber layup on both sides. They made the wing frames at #3 and #6 ply on 2 sides for a box strut. A easier substitute on a existing boat is to make an I beam by adding timbers on the opposite side but I doubt you would need it. If you have to install a new deck go ahead and also install ply gussets on the wing frame to ama side joint. An easy load spreading reinforcement is to tape the joints with biaxial glass and epoxy. Wanderers probably don't need anything as they were built heavier. If your plans are for a Vagabond MK2 the scantlings are quite different than a Cavalier so go by what is on your boat.
Interestingly there are some things to think about the rig. When researching the Nicol tris a few things came up. If a boat lost an ama, which happened a very few times and was likely build quality, it was the windward ama that let go from the rig strain.The boats that lost an ama didn't capsize. In all cases the ama was destroyed. When Hedley capsized while trying to sail at speed in a 70 knot storm the ama didn't let go. They scribed notes on it after the storm then cut it off as a message on a bottle while they tried to right their proa. It was found intact in New Zealand a year later. The other point is almost all the boats that lost an ama were ketch rigged with the main mast stayed to the end of the ama float. This allowed large loads on a cantilever, including torsion loads with the large hatch near the aft end of the wing further weakening the beam. When the Haig's lost their ama after 100,000 overloaded blue water miles it broke from the aft end forward on their ketch. The Nicol boats all had pretty high payloads but they are probably not a good idea, the boats that had problems were overloaded. I'd say 3000 pounds is plenty for a Cavalier. Good luck with your refit, there are quite a few boats still out there sailing so build quality counts, their have been many successful long distance voyages made in these boats.
A deeper rudder would help, a modern spade in the same location with a deeper fin to protect it or a transom rudder have both been done.