Brainstorming Retractable Drives

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by CatBuilder, Sep 29, 2011.

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  1. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    Yeah CB, I get that, hence the mounted ahead scheme on a direct via clutch shaft from the front of the engine, similar to the dive compressor on the pearling lugger, A mooring service lighter I worked on had similar but with no clutch to operate the hydrolic pump for the lift winches- these are not "small" loads like a toy alternator, generally the front of the engine has a pulley attached on the front of the engine crankshaft to drive alternater & pumps etc, in the case of the mooring barge a simple drive flange, shaft & universal joints transmited power to the hydrolic pump via a splined input shaft on the pump, this was souced from an auto/truck supplier at quite reasonable cost. Theres firms that specialize in power tranmission via belt/ chain/ shaft systems to industry, sometimes a "gang" of belts can be used, theres catalogs full of bearing assemblie etc for setting up layshafts & the like.
    Outboards are really the simple solution esp' at the cost, if you're wearing them out you'd have a big smile!
    Jeff.
     
  2. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

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  3. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    yipster designer

    In a combined setup we want kick ups fased, props and rudder, rudders, clean bottom
    Better to have props fwd and more thinking / brainstorming to be done
     
  4. Injuneer
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: USA

    Injuneer Junior Member

    If that's a concern, you could use a full-size electric outboard (not Torqeedo).

    But I'd be more worried about cavitation when mounted so far astern. Plus occasional total immersion of the motor in seawater.
     
  5. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Where have you seen a full size electric outboard? I've been looking and haven't found one.
     
  6. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Masalai: That Watts Up thing is pretty interesting. Thanks for the link.

    I can't get the Yanmar generator because it's way too small. 3KW - I need at least 3x that power. Close to 10KW of electricity for running the galley and heating and cooling loads.

    (reading the multihulls mag article now...)

    Still looking at that CV joint idea too. Does anyone know where to purchase some kind of PTO that sits between the engine and marine gearbox? I'm trying to find one that can handle a 30HP input at 1200RPMs and will T off with a shaft to power a generator head. Ideally, it would be able to disengage the prop shaft when the generator head was in use, then re-engage the prop shaft when the generator was not in use.
     
  7. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    From the multihulls mag: This is exactly what I was thinking of doing in the other thread about the diesel electric setup...

    " There are seven of
    Fusion have recently launched a
    sophisticated hybrid (diesel-electric)
    version of the very popular Fusion 40,
    which uses Glacier Bay’s integrated hybrid
    system, based on their Ossa Powerlite
    range of products. The boat is powered
    by a 26kW variable speed Mercedes
    diesel generator (240 volt DC) which
    drives two 21hp (15.6kW) motors which
    run on 400 volt AC power, driving
    through Sonic saildrive legs and Gori
    three-bladed props. Power for the
    motors, appliances and air conditioning is
    provided by an inverter. There are only a
    couple of house batteries for lighting and
    other 12 volt applications: this system
    requires the generator to be running
    when motoring and when house loads
    are high. "
     
  8. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    Yes, that is the one. I have seen a home made version of this done in wood actually. An engine driven one would have to be much stronger, and larger. I have no doubt it can be made powerful enough to push a yacht.

    My thought was to have one large rigid foil in each hull in a large rotating cassette, with them fixed at center, the cassette would allow rotation for steering and retraction for shallows or beaching. For propulsion each of the foils would move in opposite direction (via a linkage through the aft beam) and drive the hull forward, the cassettes would allow them to rotate for steering and "thrust vectoring". With the linkage it would allow one engine to drive both foils, or have both engines power both at the same time. This would allow the ship to be driven symmetrically even if one engine is off-line.

    It can be just as efficient as a prop, even more so if carefully designed. A propeller is a foil (or rather two or three foils) moving around in a circle, this is the same concept except it only rotates through half a circle and than changes direction. The homemade one I saw only swung the blades though about 40 degrees of the arc and was remarkably effective.

    The advantage is there is no retraction mechanism of the engine and drive gear, all of the engine and drive device is contained in the hull, and there is no drag of the prop when under sail power, and it allows the rudder to also double as the drive device.

    The concept might be worth exploring, perhaps even make a smaller 10 hp version of it to fit into a Hobie cat to see how it works and to work out details/potential problems before building a 50 hp version.

    You wanted new ideas, here you have one. If we build it, you will have the only yacht with such a drive.
     
  9. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member


    ................ http://www.hayescouplings.com/index.php/customdesigns/pastprojects ........ this firm seems to have auxiliary power transmission experience according to their website.
     
  10. keysdisease
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: South Florida USA

    keysdisease Senior Member

    Take a look here:

    http://www.steyr-motors.com/marine/engines/mo32-smartsize-series/

    Will you be at IBEX? I'm sure the latest and greatest will be there, and there are several seminars regarding hybrid and / or battery technology including this one that seems to have your name on it:

    D&E • 1501
    Hybrid and Electric Propulsion: Determining
    Viability for Specific Applications

    and then this one:

    MES • 703
    Distributed Power Options:
    Current State of Affairs

    and:

    MES • 1003
    Optimized Energy Production

    and:

    MES • 1303
    Hybrid-Electric Propulsion:
    The Mansura Trophy

    and:

    MES • 1603
    Marine Applications of Lithium
    Ion Batteries

    http://www.ibexshow.com/seminar-series1.php

    If you come, look me up

    Steve
     
  11. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Hi Steve, I hadn't been thinking about IBEX. Not sure if there is anything worth taking a few days off from building for. I'll take a look at the exhibitor's list.

    Jeff: Checking out that site...
     
  12. Injuneer
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Injuneer Junior Member

    Aquawatt in Austria has a couple of outboards, a 13 kW and a 22 kW. The 13 kW is around $9K, and the 22 kW is around $11.5K. You could install these into outboard nacelles on the inboard side of the hulls under the bridgedeck, in the style of some of the Schionning and Oram designs in Australia (that is if you don't mind a couple of warts in your bridgedeck tunnel).

    http://www.aquawatt.at/en/electric-outboards.php
     

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  13. Injuneer
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Injuneer Junior Member

    In addition to the Aquawatt outboards, Regennautics out of Florida has 145 kW outboard powered by a UQM motor. With a couple of these 200 HP outboards, you might be able to get that 45 Hughes up on plane. Or if not, you could be the only charter catamaran to offer water skiing. :D

    http://regennautic.com/2011/09/latest-marine-news/
     

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  14. keysdisease
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    keysdisease Senior Member

    I know we've been over this but I was walking through a local boatyard a few hours ago and came across this Day Charter Cat from the Bahamas. I think this is a Gold Coast 53

    Steve
     

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  15. Injuneer
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Injuneer Junior Member

    Oh, and one more option if you were inclined to go the DIY route. Get a couple of blown outboards, rip out the engines and install electric motors of your choice - DC, BLDC, PMCT, brushed Lynch, or "industrial-quality" AC motors. That way you could select your own gearing and modify the length of the lower unit leg to exactly match your installation.
     
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