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Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by windboat, Jul 7, 2011.

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  1. FMS
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    FMS Senior Member

  2. spork

    spork Previous Member

    To set the record straight - we did do it. I did think of it. I was not the first to think of it - which I learned shortly after posting it as a brain-teaser on another forum. And we have said so at every opportunity - including on our website/blog, and in the very first seconds of the video.

    As it happens, we were almost certainly the first to achieve DDWFTTW in a manned vehicle. We thought Bauer had most likely beaten us to it, but we've since learned that he quite probably didn't quite do it. He definitely did succeed repeatedly with working models on a home-made treadmill.

    That is an absolute lie - flat out. We've been interviewed dozens of times and given many talks on the topic. Never once did we fail to describe the history of this thing. You simply have no idea how the media works, so you call us liars just for the hell of it. That is a malicious lie!

    Another absolute lie.

    I did conceive the idea. And you'll be hard pressed to find anywhere I say that, where I don't immediately explain that I wasn't the first to do so. To this day we don't know who was. We've traced it back as far as a student in the 40's that wrote a paper that caught Bauer's attention.

    Please do provide a link to that article - or is that another flat out lie?

    I learned of Jack not long after posting this as a brain-teaser (long before 2006). I don't know whether Jack took the project on as a result of the debates that were sparked by my brain-teaser or not. I don't care. I was not the first to think of it, and never claimed or implied otherwise. I consider Jack a friend, and I think he feels likewise. I've done a good deal to defend Jack when others have attacked him - both on the internet and in print.
     
  3. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    kerosene Senior Member

    That is from 2010 - when they had already given credit the other inventors over and over.

    And He did DESIGN it. If I design a car and say I designed it it doesn't mean I was the 1st to design a car. If I design land speed sail cart doesn't mean I am claiming to be the 1st to think of sticking a sail on a cart.



    2008 quote:

    "We've been flawless in our credit to others.

    Pop quiz from our MythBusters Video --

    -- What's the first picture you see on the screen?

    -- How many seconds into our video is it before we state that others have done it?

    -- In the video which cart is first shown operation?

    -- Which cart do we say inspired us to build ours?

    -- Do we say we designed our small cart or do we toss credit to someone else?


    We throw credit around like Christmas candy.

    "

    And related video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHsXcHoJu-A




    I think this video puts these "ethics" issues in rest. If Rick didn't credit origins in every single post doesn't make him an imposter. Drop it already.
     
  4. spork

    spork Previous Member

    Before this gets too far out of hand, I really want to make sure people get to compare Boston's vicious lies in this thread with the actual record that appears in black and white on this forum. He lied and attacked us then, and he continues to do so now.

    Perhaps more entertaining is his talk of his current patent - the one he says he was not able to get broad coverage with. So it seems he's done a narrow workaround of someone else's idea, and is now concerned he won't get the credit he deserves for that idea. I guess it must suck when someone steals your stolen idea. :rolleyes:

    For the record, I have over 25 patents. Those DO contain my original ideas. I would NEVER claim someone else's idea as my own. I would and have claimed to conceive of something when I've done so. And when I wasn't the first to conceive of it, I've made that clear. I have NEVER called myself the inventor of the downwind cart. That title is reserved for the first one to conceive of it.

    ETA: Does anyone else find it entertaining that he wants folks to sign a non-disclosure agreement for a document that is by definition in the public domain? I'd love to see that NDA as I've never seen one that doesn't specifically exclude all material already in the public domain.
     
  5. FMS
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    FMS Senior Member

    Seems pointless to rehash a 2008 argument again. You two must have something better to do with your time than keep snapping at each other.
     
  6. spork

    spork Previous Member

    There really wasn't any debate. Just Boston telling vicious lies then, and telling them again now. You're suggesting we should just leave it alone and let him tell his lies?

    As to having better things to do with my time - yes - I'm currently building the turbine blades to make the same cart go directly upwind faster than the wind. I'm not the first to have thought of that either. But I bet I'll be the first to do it.
     
  7. backyardbil
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    backyardbil Junior Member

  8. backyardbil
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    backyardbil Junior Member

    Your "brain teaser" didn't appear before April 2006. You cannot show anything to prove otherwise. To suggest that Jack got the idea from you is really insulting to him.
     
  9. Dave Gudeman
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

    Dave Gudeman Senior Member

    What's this "you two" business? Are you seriously implying that Spork is as much to blame for this bickering as Boston?

    Boston has repeatedly defamed Spork and told scurrilous lies about him. When someone lies about you and claims that you engaged in unethical behavior, you have to defend yourself or people will take your silence as an admission of guilt.

    Boston can't just be wrong; it has to be someone else's fault, and that requires lying about the other people. "They refused to explain it in a way that I could understand!" "They were bad people so I didn't listen when they tried the explain!"

    Pretty lame, Boston.
     
  10. Jeremy Harris
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Jeremy Harris Senior Member

    Does it matter? There was nothing novel about the the concept, it's just simple physics (although I accept that the concept may be difficult for some to understand, until they realise the way it works).

    Nothing was invented here, at least in the past 50 years or so, but nevertheless a fierce argument seems to broken out over claims of novelty.

    I can understand someone thinking they'd come up with a novel idea and later finding out that it was simply parallel evolution, or that another had had the same idea years before, it happens all the time.

    I don't see what this has to do with this thread though - why not take your various personal grievances out into the school yard, away from this thread, and sort them out in the time-honoured fashion?

    Jeremy
     
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  11. spork

    spork Previous Member

    Yet another lie. You did manage to find a post in which I described conceiving of the idea/design without mentioning in the same post that others had conceived of it before me. I did not suggest I'd invented it. My partner in the project, JB, went into a good deal of detail immediately below regarding the history of DDWFTTW research. Not far below that I say:

    "But oddly, with only about two paragraphs, they managed to quote me crediting Bauer and the student that we think first conceived of this. I think I may be a failure as a fraud."

    So it seems I not only made mention of Bauer, but also pointed out that one of the articles about our project quoted me as giving Baur credit as well. Don't you folks even care about being caught in obvious lies?
     
  12. spork

    spork Previous Member

    That's highly misleading. We never did claim novelty. We don't now. The argument is over the lies people are telling.

    I will respond to fallacious attacks on my character where they appear. Boot Boston and delete his and my posts if you like. If I tell vicious lies and attack YOUR character in this thread, will you let that go and invite me out to the schoolyard? Really?
     
  13. backyardbil
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    backyardbil Junior Member

    Your partner only sought to set the record straight after you had been "found out" by Windmaster. You were perfectly happy to allow the forum members to believe it was all your own idea. Don't know why you keep shouting "liar" when it is fully documented and clear for all to see.
     
  14. spork

    spork Previous Member

    I don't think you can claim I was "found out" when I clearly mention an article that was already in print in which I made it quite clear that I was not the first to conceive of this idea - without being interrogated. I've made it clear MANY MANY times, on our blog site, on our video, in the articles, in the talks we've given at NASA, NALSA, SJSU, Stanford, AIAA, and many others.

    I think the documentation in black and white makes it quite clear who's lying.

    ETA: It WAS all my own idea. I simply wasn't the first to have that idea. I've got a pile of patents that are clearly all my own ORIGINAL ideas. Why would I try to take credit for being the first to have an idea when I wasn't the first to have that idea? You guys really need to find something to whine about - huh? It's becoming clear that you're no better than Boston. And that is one awfully low bar when it comes to personal integrity.
     

  15. FMS
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    FMS Senior Member

    It appears to be a page of whining now. If you won't take the fight to the playground to work it out, could you continue the endless ranting on facebook or something so the rest of us can read about boats.
    Now that's something actually interesting. Thanks.
     
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