Early human marine exploration of North America and their vessels

anecdotal evidence

Just read an article in Backwoodsman Magazine about building a Penobscot war bow. It stated that a Penobscot legend has it that a similar bow killed a viking at a range of several hundred yards. Maybe just interesting trivia.

 

Ya thats just the problem word of mouth tends to change the story and the names. Example the word Viking in itself is so broad in meaning. A prime example of word of mouth is the history of religions and countrys in that it is so warped with self gain and promotion. We all want to be with the right gang so much that we change or twist the past to accomidate our needs. One example i learned recently is the famous WW11 mustang fighter, for years we looked upon it as an icon of our North American(U.S.) engineering but alas it had a RR engine( which most knew) and apparently I've been informed it was designed by a German( haven't tracked that last tid bit down yet ) Of recent technology is Harley Davidson while designed in America(U.S.) it is now made up of so many foreign made parts(now including China i've been told) that it is verging on the point of being looked at as assembled in America. In the same manner some questions are now being raised about first in power flight, the true inventor of the telephone, and recently the whole evelotion of the human species migration routes and timing has been turned on it's head. As "OUR" world communications is becoming truly open to the whole world who knows what will emerge in new info--Geo.

 

George,

Near enough the whole story here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin

Packards powered the P 51 Mustangs.

Regards,

P

 

Windover Village

Viking north

The Beothuck Canoe has high sides for a very necessary purpose. In my more adventerous days, I used to launch my sail boat off a prime surfing beach into the Pacific Ocean. I had to time the sets and my launch so I arrived at the surfline at a minimun wave period. And when returning, I'd ride the back of a wave. I had to carefully position my boat. A zone of water at the back of the wave is traveling forward. If I get too high on the wave my rudder gets in that zone and the boat turns opposite to the helm. and that will get a boat in trouble fast. If I get too far into the trough, the water is traveling back toward the next wave so fast that I can lose boat speed and may be hit by that wave. It is a balance, and when the wave breaks, the boat 'settles' into the wave. The boat is supported in the middle by the 'hump' of water the was (is?) the wave, with very little support from the bow and stern, so it sits lower in the water. High gunnels are important to keep the water in the ocean and out of the boat. After they built King Harbor, I never launched through the surf or surfers again.
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Viking north
I think "United States" was in the text I was citing. If not, I must have had in mind all the California sites and wanted to be inclusive. But a rereading shows I also cited sites in Alaska and Oregon (last I checked they're still US since neither has been sold to China for their share of the US debt), but also cited sites in BC and Chile. So, you are right in that "United States" was inappropriate for reasons you give and because I did not mean Florida or anywhere east of the coastal mountains. "Eastern Pacific" may have been the most appropriate geographic term. Although, the "Western Shores of North and South America" is more specific, but is a bit unwieldy.
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Enough old business. Back to ancient mariners.
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Windover an 8,000 year old retirement community in Florida.

http://www.nbbd.com/godo/history/windover/

They found 167 bodies buried in a pond in Florida, and they left half the pond undisturbed.
But they did not find a boat.

It seems a little too early to have walked across the Bearingia bridge, and too late to have walked across the North Atlantic Ice. So, they had a boat.

But they did not find a boat, and they have stopped looking for lack of funds.
LMo

 

Fascinating link; thanks for posting it.

Not finding a boat doesn't really mean much. How many boats will archaeologists of the future find when they start digging in our cemeteries?

 

interesting anecdotal idea

Doing some research on Maine Coon cats. They are a very old breed in Maine and their origins are not known. Closest relative is the Norweigan Forest Cat. Probably just an interesting co-incidence. Still, I can picture one of these unique cats peering over the prow of a viking ship as it neared land.

 

troy2000
I agree.
Windover is so early, it predates Celts, Picts, Norse and Native American Tribes, and their proto-cultures by an amount of time greater than those cultures can claim to be in existance. It even predates the Phoenlcians (1500BC), Mycenaeans (1600BC), and Egyptians (3200BC)!
Results of DNA testing should be very revealing.

Perhaps Noah was not the only one who had boatbuilding skills.
LMo

 

Noah ran the arkyard but he didn't work alone.

 

And when he approached the project, it was always a little arkward.

LMo

 

...especially if he put the dogs in barkwards.

 

hoyt
Doves fly in the day, but did Noak have to park the ark in the dark?
[Yours is better.]
LMo

 

Arkgh!

 

Doves arc on the wind. If Noah had been a Kennedy he would arkuably have pahked the ahk on Hahvahd yahd.

 

Pericles, I followed the biblemysteries links and then up their home page. Their Dead Sea sub expedition captivated me. May I politely ask your opinion on the possible efficiency of an ultrasonic probe (a kind of semi-independent "wand", a unmanned ultrasound-capable micro-sub) to remove the salt cristals revealing those underwater walls?
I even find the big sub unnecesary now that we know they are there - and where.
Pericles, I am not a native English speaker. If I have stepped on and eventually crushed any of the seven liberal arts & sciences, please be tolerant and, well, tolerate my clumsiness.

 

Windover Village

As arkward as it is to admit, I am out classed by both of you.

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Windover Village is about the same age as Ubaid (5300BC), the predecessers of the Sumerians. The Sumerians invented the wheel, alphabetic writing, aquaducts, and analog computers. (The Sumerians also invented languages at their Institute of Babel, the world's first ivory tower.) The Ubaid are thought to have used rivercraft.

Windover is younger than the Jomon (11,000BC) and they were whale hunters and had seaworthy boats.

But the passage from the Persian Gulf (assuming Ubaid craft were seaworthy), or from Siberia/northern Japan, to Florida looks to be a quest or odyssey magnitudes harder than the original mythical voyage.

I'm finding it easier to believe the Windover ancestors crossed the land bridge on its previous opening, and then hunted and ate their menadering way across North America.

I'm fiding it hard see how or why anyone would trek across an ice shelf for 15 or 20,000km to discover New Jersey, then return for their family or village saying, "Found this great new place, looks alot like here, but cleaner air, better food, more room for for the kids. Pack up. We're on caravan!" And then making the trip a third time. Even if half the able-bodied went ahead without the elderly, pregnant, or toddlers, it's a forbidding trek. If any or all legs is by boat, they could hunt marine mammals for food and material, but there is the constant risk of swamping by waves generated by the randomly calving ice.

Siberians could make the journey a valley at a time. But Iberians have to cross the ice shelf in a season which would require a seaworthy sailboat. If that's what happened, I admire their fortitude.

LMo