STEAM, yet again?

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by FAST FRED, May 8, 2011.

  1. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    just think back a few years before cars but steam everywhere.
    Someone says I have a new engine we pressurise pariffin to about 2000bar and pump it to each cylinder where it explodes..shock horror mobile bombs no less

    PS
    China doesnt allow any Chinese company to supply any pressure vessels to any job in China..yep its dangerous
     
  2. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    creating LPG causes more CO2 to be released to the atmosphere than burning coal so back to oil
    You now know why OZ couldn't sign the Kyoto fatwa or implement a carbon tax
     
  3. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    my interest in these engines is in using them in a boat as a compact reliable power supply more than the polution side of things.
     
  4. Zurael
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    Zurael New Member

    Ive been following this engine for a few years now and I think it has potential. If the combustor is as efficient as they claim (would like to see some independent verification) I think it could be a useful heat source for a variety of external combustion engine configurations.. (maybe free piston stirling or rankine, or a rankine turbine). The claimed multi fuel capability is also interesting as more fuel options become available, or other fuels are no longer produced. (Like avgas 100LL, which the epa says is going to be phased out, much to the dismay of general aviation..)
     
  5. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    I explored steam for quite a while and I'd have to agree, steam is dangerous stuff. Boiler explosions were a regular occurrence when steam was the popular choice for locomotion and death and sever injury were not uncommon. I tried to tailor my system for a low pressure engine but the logistics were pretty daunting.

    anyway G its a relief to actually agree on something
    cheers
    B
     
  6. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I am certified for low pressure steam, and even that can be dangerous. The calorie content from steam is very high.
     
  7. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    I wonder if steam has killed more people than nuclear?
     
  8. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

  9. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Nuclear power produces steam.
     
  10. Jeremy Harris
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    Jeremy Harris Senior Member

    It might be an idea to go back and look at the way this engine works, before continuing the long diatribe about boilers and their safety (or otherwise).

    Essentially, this engine may use superheated steam as its working fluid, but it doesn't have a conventional boiler and therefore doesn't present the same hazards. As I mentioned in an earlier post, tubular flash boilers are significantly less hazardous than pressure vessel boilers and if they do fail the failure is usually contained within the casing, with no risk of lumps of metal flying out to cause damage.
     
  11. cthippo
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    cthippo Senior Member

    Steam makes you fat? :confused:

    Yes, I know what you really meant

    If we're only counting reactor accidents then absolutely no question steam has killed more people. The total number of people killed in nuclear accidents is comfortably below 60. Boiler explosions on the early steamboats killed several times that in a single incident.
     
  12. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    The issues of steam remain the same regardless of what mechanical system its used in. Very high pressures, very high temperatures, lots of pipes, valves, condensers coils, oil separators ( which they forgot to mention in the description of how it works ) safety pop valves and so on. I realize this engine is supposed to be self contained but plenty of closed loop systems have ended up going down in flames. Basically the safety of the system until its out there in regular use is going to be highly questionable, as is the toxicity of the exhaust gasses depending on what type of fuel is used.

    Don't get me wrong I"m all about alternative energies but I see a few big red flags concerning this one.
     
  13. Jeremy Harris
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    Jeremy Harris Senior Member

    As someone who has stood next to a tube flash boiler failure, I can say with certainty that it's a bit of a non-event.

    Most of us drive around in cars with a high speed series of high pressure conflagrations going on all the time (pressures are typically around 2000psi, more for diesel engines). Very occasionally one of these goes awry and bits of engine break up. Do we have concerns about this? Of course we don't, as the volume of working fluid is small, as is the amount of energy contained within a single cylinder fill.

    Take a look at the engine that's the subject of this thread. It has a tiny working fluid capacity, smaller than the capacity of many internal combustion engines. The stored energy in a flash boiler is vastly smaller than that in a conventional boiler, which is one of the things that makes them intrinsically safer.
     
  14. cthippo
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    cthippo Senior Member

    I remember there was a flap a few years back about the boilers used to generate steam for espresso stands. There was talk about regulating them as pressure vessels until it was realized that no one could remember a case of one exploding.

    Absolutely, steam can be dangerous, even when not pressurized. I manage to scorch myself ironing fabric on a pretty regular basis. As Jeremy says though, it's a matter of scale.
     

  15. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

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