Richard II

Professional

A person so professional and with such talent/knowledge/insight/experience should be able to take part in discussions with professional etiquette and professional manner.

I believe there are many many other professionals on this forum that do exactly that and I don't have to wade through countless pages of foulmouthing to see their message come across.

Good riddance.

soffi

 

Jeff,
If i took that attitude with my daily work, nothing would be achieved. The number of times i have been on the shopfloor where a disgruntled fabricator who either 1) didn't like being told what to do by a "suit" or 2) didn't like having to do something he didn't want to or 3) being told he made a mistake and must correct it, is numerous. And the language they use is far far greater than anything you may have had expressed to you.

If i took your course of action, the boats i designed would end up with endless warranty issues for failure to correct something in production before being launched, or worse I would lose my job. Simply because "i don't like being told to f**k off" by a person who should know better. That is somewhat churlish and and immature, don't you think? Cutting ones nose to spite ones face?

I get endless negative hits by these very same people, not liking the bad news on their "great ideas" or not comprehending the answer and exposed as such. Ego's get bruised very easily when the person is in a myopic majority of one!

Concur. Should "emotions" spill over..what is wrong with a cooling down period. It happens in most forms of society in one shape or form, the over heated arguments and the cooling down..

 

I find it hard to believe that on the shopfloor where you are charged with maintaining order you give directions to a fabricator that a change must be made and after they repeatedly continue the same bad behavior accept a response that the faulty behavior will not be changed but instead "kiss my ***".

As moderator, I told Richard that he was crossing the line. His response was "kiss my ***."

 

I agree with the majority of the people in the forums. Richard was a real asset to the many folks who needed his help and expertise. He will be sorely missed.

The fact that he would spend his time engaging and helping people should not be overlooked.

 

I had no problem with Richard's building or engineering - the problem came because he refused to put his own emotion in check. I don't recall ever getting complaints about you calling other members *******s, twats, retards, or telling other members to "kiss my ***" in response to their question or comments. This behavior is not professional.

 

As hard as you may find this to believe, it occurs daily in every shipyard. One either ignores it and gets on the the job, or becomes affected by it and the situation deteriorates, since shopfloor environments are generally not for the weak or spineless.

So why is when i get personal attacks and being to to f**k off publicly and via PMs, you did nothing about it, save for removing the post, despite my request for doing so? Or is it a case of these insults etc were not directed at you personally?...ahh..that was when you banned him finally!

There are enough dictatorships in the real world, do we want one in the cyber world? A moderator should be just that, not a judge jury and executioner. Since if that is the case why call it BD forum..why not just Jeff's Forum?

 

This is very true. He definitely had his good points and those will be missed. Extreme leniency was shown for a long time with Richard because of his experience in the hope that he would get his moments of bad behavior under control. Unfortunately, he reached a point where his demand seemed to be that his posts calling others *******s or "retards" be left to stand as a condition of his membership, and this would be an untenable situation. The decision to ban him was not made lightly.

 

At a certain point if a member of your crew is absolutely unwilling to improve their behavior or follow the rules or specifications you've set out, they must not be allowed to continue. To me, filling posts with vulgarity, insults, and hostility is not acceptable any more than allowing a worker to continue performing bad welds and looking the other way because of their other talent. I tried to be tolerant for a long time because of his good points; I had hoped that through subtle corrections he would control the bad moments of his emotion from creeping out at others' expense, but I cannot allow a member to absolutely refuse to follow the rules and absolutely refuse to make any concession towards improving their behavior.

I don't ban anyone lightly. Most people, even when guilty of bad behavior, do have their good points too. I start by removing the offending post in question. In this case, the situation with Richard has been ongoing for over a year. Unfortunately, it reached the point where he was unwilling to respond even to the request (which I feel is plenty respectful)

or make any concession to improving his behavior.

If the people who attacked you continued their behavior and in response to their post being moderated or a request to modify their behavior, told the moderator to "kiss my ***," they would also be banned, just the same as Richard.

I respected Richard's experience, but I am not willing to "kiss his ***" and make this Richard's Forum where Richard is allowed to call anyone an *******, ****, retard. etc. Maybe Richard will spend the next 10 years of his life building "Richard's Forum" where such behavior is encouraged, and if so, I hope he is happy with this environment, but I do not believe this is productive or sustainable.

 

I for one applaud Jeff's actions on this matter.

All the knowledge and experience in the world is useless if you can't share it in a professional, or even humane manner. I often felt that his treatment of other forum members went beyond merely disrespectful to the point of being intentionally cruel and that this sort of thing should not be tolerated on any forum.

Don't get me wrong, I would never advocate banning someone for their position or ideas so long as they express themselves in a manner respectful of others. Richard consistently failed to do this and so I feel the moderator's actions were appropriate. Should he desire to rejoin the forum in the future and conduct himself in a more respectful manner befitting his years of experience, then I would welcome him back.

 

The problem is that in the real world he's actually a friendly very helpful individual who calls a spade a spade. In the virtual world that others see is just the irascible opinionated poster. In the virtual world it's very hard to understand just where someone is 'coming from' especially when there is a cultural divide.

Jeff has to call a line somewhere but I wonder if we could have got him to simply ameliorate their behavior with less harsh disciplinary action. Like removing 1500 points (in Apex's case) or banned for a month before the total annihilation option.

He's intelligent, surely he could have learned to follow the line to Jeff's standard.

 

I definitely do not like anyone having to be banned. Thankfully it has rarely been necessary in the last 10 year history of the site. Everyone has good qualities and Richard definitely had his good points as well which I will miss. However, I do not believe that he is really hurting over this or else he would have sent a single message at the time of the incident or in the two days following; no message was received from him directly, except for the “Kiss My ***” statement he made. I fear he sometimes grows bored and enjoys a good show, especially now that he would like to strike back at the site where he is no longer welcome due to his own bad behavior.

That is correct. Wickedgood annoyed a number of people with his posts of the wrong place and posting out of turn in the "where it this" thread, but for what it's worth when people complained he usually would delete his own offending posts in question. In this case, Richard complained about one of his posts and I removed the post from wickedgood in question and also Richard's post following which contained Richard's complaint

This resulted in some comments about my weak character as mod for not banning wickedgood outright (Richard absolutely refused to simply put a person such as this he found annoying on his ignore list but instead demanded they be banned) as well as another retard comment

as he apparently was infuriated that I would delete his post complaining about the wickedgood posts

instead of only deleting the wickedgood posts in question.

In response to the fallout, after ignoring my original comment entirely, Richard blew up when I gave him a single negative rep, also signed with my name, and again repeating the comment

responding

With that response, I can not foresee improvement or any willingness to modify behavior then or in the days following, so that forum account was terminated.

 

Agreed. The "context" is not easy to 'get across' in simple text, especially if English is not ones mother tongue (as in the case of Richard).

I also note that Jeff, and this website is US based.

What we find humorous and laughable and tolerated in the UK was greeted with shock and horror in the US. I recall our Electrical designer (my previous company), constantly being told by the US 'staff members' he was working with on a sales trip, that he can't say and do what kept doing. He would be sued!!!!...what is politically uncorrect in one country may not be in another.

The cultural divide exists, despite us all using the same language for communication.

 

- agree

- strongly disagree. You are a recent member and I welcome you to the forum but we are discussing a member who is held in great regard by many of us here, serious professional boat builders and designers and enthusiastic amateurs like myself.

It is true Richard did not tolerate fools gladly and cheerfully told them so. It is a pity that he had to tolerate them at all. From some of the above posts it seems that he fell victim to one of our least appreciated members.

To most of us it feels like losing the guy who helped old ladies and schoolchildren across the street because he spoke sharply to some teenaged buffoon who badmouthed him.

 

I can see this in cases where Richard called others "dumb nickle" or "dreamers", or what became a heated exchange here:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fi...t-composite-debates-heated-remarks-34526.html

However, I don't believe calling other members ******* or **** is humorous, unless you know them extremely well so they know your intention is not so hostile. However the context here is a web forum, and the "punishment" only applies to being banned from that context. I have no concern how he talks in his real life to his friends and wish him the best in his personal life off the forum.

 

Richard

I just came back to ‘‘civilization ’’ and logged in after 4 days... and saw this......

I'm very sad about it.

Richard, I was your enemy but you became my freind.

To bad not everyone could (or won't) see the outstretched hand which offered valuable information and guidance for free...

Thanks for what you did for your peers on the forum..!!

I whish you well my Friend...!!!

Angélique