Want to build modified Tancook Whaler

Glenn , My main reason for liking the T. Whaler is the sail configuration,. Sailing on the Snake River, (slack water now ) becomes really boring with overlaping sail ,etc.. Plus I love the romance of a schooner, tired of looking at standard looking sailboats. Reason for the transom is I would like to put some rear window s in , maybe just for the classic look,. We also do a lot of trailering here.
Jack

 

Tancook Rig

So you like what Chapelle calls the "Pilot Schooner" rig of the Tancook. The foresail does overlap the main, though the jib is on a club and usually rigged to be self tending in a tack. That still gives three sheets to handle when gybing, coming up to the wind or falling off. In one of Roger Taylor's "Good Boat" books (I don't remember which one, there were four) he gives a good description of what it's like to sail a small tancook. I believe it was a review of a Van Dine fiberglass 26 footer.

Bolger doesn't like the fisherman staysail, and prefers a main staysail tacked to the deck for light air. The fisherman is quite high, which gives great heeling effect; however that sometimes gets it up into the wind on a really calm day during inland sailing.

Stern windows implies an aft cabin, it will be difficult to have even sitting headroom without a 24 footer looking like a caricature. With an aft cabin comes a center cockpit, in which case a normal centerboard becomes less of an issue. You might look at Atkin's "Florence Oakland" as an example of a V-bottom schooner in that size range.

Have you drawn any of this to scale to see what your ideas look like?

Glenn

 

None of these sounds like a Tancook Whaler, but a series of small schooner ideas in general. The TW was a light, large, open boat with a small cuddy, originally built very, very cheap and in a hurry, for fishing and general transport in the sometimes boisterous Atlantic. Originally completely open and 24-28 feet, the mature design was 40-50 feet. The lean ends do not lend themselves to stern cabins, etc. Change the shape and you've designed a new boat, for better or worse as will be seen on launching. TWs were fast and very handy, but change them much at all and that goes away. The original lines are very long and sharp, giving the good performance.
I suggest abandoning the "Tancook Whaler" phrase and approach the design problem for what it is, a custom vessel for a specialized use (trailering, aluminum construction etc).
Vague, nostalgic affection for a particular type or rig is not good design criteria. Like the transport of today, every work boat type of the past had a rock-solid reason to be the way it was in hull and rig, dictated by environment, trade and profit.
Sometimes these factors work for yacht use, but usually not, and a workboat-inspired yacht becomes a wholly new design.

 

I have a number of small schooners to my credit now, every single one has a transom, as the schooner rig needs bearing area aft. A few have overlapping foresails which offers power, though also has disadvantages. There are some myths about the Tancook Whaler that should be considered. First is they weren't especially fast, though with their low freeboard, heavily raked and fine ends, may have seemed so to some. These boats evolved in a unique set of conditions which forced the shape of the boat into what she became by the turn of the 20th century.

As Bataan has described they where usually flush decked forward with a small (read very small) cuddy in which a few berths were stuffed. The midship area was where the hold was divided by parting boards and of course the huge steel plate centerboard case. Then a "main thwart" which housed was partners of the main mast.

As far as it's shape, well it was likely a modified descendant of the Hampton with pinky influences as well. Eventually the hull form became it's own type as it met it's design needs, one of which was to row out to sea in slack air (low freeboard and fine ends). They were excellent sailing boats, considering what they where and the limitations imposed by conditions and service. They like to heeled over a fair bit. This tends to flatten out the well "tucked" buttocks so they can scoot with little fuss. They aren't very maneuverable and often needed sail assistance to handle a tight anchorage. This is also a boat that was much better suited to kicking the crews butts if she was loaded up with fish, rather then light. In light trim, they are squirrelly, but loaded down with fish they settle down and become well mannered sailing machines. The waterlines of a Tancook are magnificent artwork, particularly those built by the Masons.

As far as a yacht conversion, they have many things to detract from "modern accommodations". Again as pointed out by Bataan, the ends are quite fine, so stowage only in these locations. These double ended yachts have a midship area that could serve as living spaces for a crew, but the boat would need to be fairly large by Tancook standards to appear in proportion. Pound for pound, there are much better choices for a live aboard or cruising yacht then a Tancook, if accommodations are desired, which appears to be the case here.

In short, you can have the style and look of a "antique" yacht, but without all the limitations, such as draft, maneuverability, accommodation volume, etc. We call these "in the spirit of" or "in the tradition of" type yachts. I've recently done a Friendship Sloop in this fashion. Above the LWL, she looks all the part of a Friendship, but below the LWL she has divided foil shaped appendages, skeg mounted rudder and a sail drive. This makes her acceptable in modern life. She can motor with efficiency, she's far more maneuverable and closer winded then a traditional configuration and unless you've got some fins and a mask, you'll never know.

Considering your desires, you might want to look at the transom stern version of the Hampton boats, which have more bearing area aft and in large enough size could house an aft cabin. Of course this isn't even a remote possibility on a trailer sailor.

 

Not a Tancook

Bataan, PAR,

Yes, I know we've strayed far from Tancooks. I own Robert Post's book and have practically memorized it. I was trying to tease out what it was that Jack Wicks actually liked about the Tancook design. Wanting ultra shoal draft, aluminum construction, no centerboard case in the middle of the accomodations and a transom stern with windows seems indeed to indicate a totally different boat.

I think he was taken by the rig. The rest should be designed from the keel up. "Small aluminum shoal draft trailerable inland cruiser with transom stern and Pilot Schooner Rig" seems to be a good place to start.

Jack? Thoughts?

Glenn,
Marrowstone Island

 

Check out Ruell Parker's "Swansea Pilot Schooner" design. 28 ft, lapstrake plywood, raked unstayed masts, very cheap but not quite trailerable maybe. I saw two of these stern on to the quay in Key West and talked to the fellow on board. Two guys built two boats in 90 days and here they were rigging them up. Would work in aluminum but why bother? The planks were scarfed full length out of Home Depot plywood, sheathed both sides with F/G, then hung on the boat. So fast, cheap and effective it's breathtaking.

 

Aluminum Swansea

Why bother? Because Jack Wicks works for an aluminum boat company. Either he works with aluminum, or know someone who does.

Glenn,
Marrowstone Island

 

Understand, but AL has all its own problems with electrolysis, crevice corrosion and surface salting. A good AL boat is a very good boat, but still more expensive I think than ply and F/G. A lapstrake AL schooner would be cool. There's a builder in UK that turns out a 14' heavy dinghy in lapstrake AL and it's impressive. Lap was once used in quite large craft and is very easy to form a round hull in either in AL or wood. Gives very strong double weld. Saw a Swedish lapstrake Colin Archer being built-- bulletproof.

 

Aluminum

Yes, aluminum has it's problems. We had a Grumman canoe when I was a kid and had to rinse it carefully after any use in salt water. That was old aircraft aluminum with copper as an alloying agent.

Current alloys used for boatbuilding are far better. I've maintained steel, fiberglass and aluminum boats for Uncle Sam when I was in the Coast Guard. All my own boats have been wood. But the aluminum Coast Guard boats required less hull maintenance than anything but fiberglass.

Besides, Jack plans to use the boat on the Snake River. That's an upper tributary to the Columbia, and over a hundred miles from the sea. The salt doesn't extend upriver of the Bonneville dam. I don't think it'll be an issue for him unless he makes a _long_ trip downstream.

It's good to respect people's capabilities and resources. I'm a carpenter. If anyone suggested I build a steel or ferro cement boat I wouldn't take the advice. Jack seems to have access to aluminum construction. As much as I like glued lap (I own a glued lap Pete Culler designed Sloop - Boat) I wouldn't push it on him if he'd rather use aluminum unless I could demonstrate that it would be more affordable _for him_ in the long run.

Glenn,

Marrowstone Island.

 

Thanks Guys for the input,, Love it, You guys are pretty much on target. I have the book that Glenn refered to, ( Good Boats ) You are right about this boat not really becoming a T. Whaler. This boat will be probably used for wk. end camping, etc. and fun sails with our local club. The company I work for puts out around 30 aluminum boats a month and I've worked in all phases of it , currently run a16 ft C&C bender for them. I have really debated on using plywood though.
Built a 16 foot plywood sailboat 40 yrs. ago. Love the inputs, will talk more, gotta run. Jack

 

This is a slightly stretched version of one of my small schooners. It may answer your needs. This is a glued lapstrake built, but there are other methods, including a multi chine that could convert to aluminum fairly easily. This is also the deep draft version, but a shoal draft version is available which draws only 27" with the board up. It can be had with a clipper bow and a longer cabin too.

 

Schooner, T. whaler

Par,, Love the drawing, would like the clipper bow version and the multi chine sounds good too also the shoal draft version.. Maybe I'm getting too picky. Thanks much,, Jack

 

We used to have a steel lapstrake workboat on an ice strengthened freighter. Nice lines, easy to work but the amount of welding needed to build one makes me cringe...

PDW

 

Moitessier's boat JOSHUA and several sister ships were built with fairly wide, somewhat cupped lapped steel plates, welded inside and out at the lap. The hulls were in a jig which could spin the thing on its longitudinal axis so the welding was always downhand. Narrower "planks" wouldn't need the cup.
AL sounds like the way for our friend to go if he works in a place that cranks them out. They have the experience and materials right at hand.
4 or 5 planks a side would work as long as the deadrise wasn't too steep in the first 2.
A short boat like this needs a flattish bottom carried well into the ends to be comfortable.
Like a fat faering with a transom and a light pilot schooner (foremast right in the bows, main amidships, 1 shroud per mast per side, single headstay, 3 sails) rig. Make the rig big enough because it's easy to reduce (reefed foresail alone in a hard chance) but hard to make bigger when the wind is light.
Should scoot and leave the plastic fantastics of the same size in the dust if ballasted and sailed right.
A bigger Atkin VALGERDA with a small transom and schooner rig? Is this stupid?
I love the unpainted look of AL boats and see many Alaskan F/Vs that work hard like that.

 

Love the idea of a lapstrake aluminum boat, like you say with 5 or so planks per side. Would this be called an actual multi chine or lapped boat?. Dont matter anyway. I've been trying to figure out how to put a small curl on the edge of strips of aluminum just for this very reason for years. I was planning on useing 3/16 - 5052 on the bottom planks then switch to 1/8 on up the sides. Length on deck approx. 23 ft. with a 5 or 6 ft. bowsprit., 8 ft. beam. Bataan you are zeroing in on my thoughts, scary.,
Jack