Commercial Fishing Sailboat

Tad- Most of the longlining around your area is for halibut/blackcod, which is done in a different way (you probably know this but just in case you dont). The skates/hauling block is replaced by a reel/snap on leaders for pelagics. The TV show Swords can show you. A boat like this but designed for halibut fishing could be a good sell to some older folks with the cash for halibut IFQs (currently about $1 gillion/pound, or something). They could hire a crew to fish her, they just have to be onboard during the fishing, and the capacity for the boat wouldnt have to be that high to make good money, leaving lots of room for yacht style interior. Something to think on if youre interested in the concept, which you seem to be.

 

Mick,

your idea is an interesting one, and I have considered the viability of a sail assist for other types of commercial vessels. I thought of using retractable sails to assist bulk cargo and container ships to reduce fuel consumption on long crossings. Billions in fuel consumption could be saved.

The problem is I think that the cost of the rigging and sails, plus your utilization of the vessel (the faster you can go out and come back means the better the yield for your investment) because a question of economics. You would have to pay for totally duel drive systems, both up-front and the yearly maintainable costs would be greatly increased. You will still need a regular motor drive, as well as the extra costs of the sail rigging.

In my own example of the sail assisted freighter, I do not the think the fuel savings would make up for the extra investment and yearly maintenance costs. There is a reason sails have almost completely disappeared from commercial vessels, they are not cost effective for most applications. From fishing villages in the arctic, to the major ports around the world, commercial sailing vessels have disappeared.

For the most parts, since the invention of efficient internal combustion engines, sailing vessels have become sport or recreation. I know there will be a few on this list that will bring up one off examples of very rare, usually barely viable, commercial vessels that use sails, but if it really saves money, why do not we see them in every commercial water way? I was at the Seattle commercial port yesterday (one of the largest commercial fleets in the world), and not a single sail equipped vessel to be seen.

I also know of a guy that ships organic produce around Puget Sound with three sailing ships. He admits he is barely able to operate, and only than because there are some markets in the Seattle area that are willing to pay more for their produce knowing that no fossil fuels were used to deliver it. So he is not really viable in a normal competitively market place, his deliveries are slower than conventional transport and he operating costs are higher per pound of delivered cargo.

I suspect that at best, you would end up with an expensive recreation sailing yacht that you reduce some of your operating costs by being able to use it to catch and haul commercial cargo. So it will cost you to own, but not as much as it was for pleasure only. There are also some tax advantages too, assuming you have other taxable income to off-set. But as a money making stand alone venture, it seems unlikely.

I could be wrong, and in fact I hope I am wrong. But with all of the commercial fleets in the world, if there was any economic advantage to it, I think it would be more common.

It has to be viable to make it work, and if that can only happen because of a legal tax dodge, or some kind of government grant as an "alternative transportation system", than it is not commercially viable.

keep us posted on your thoughts.

 

Absolutely.
If this thing breaks even, i'll be happy.
One good thing about seasonal work is you don't have to 'quit your day job' to explore other things.
In order to have fun sailing on the ocean, most people have to work for years, then after some time sailing, work for years again. This is about minimizing that, not getting rich.

 

That is a really spectacular boat. Seriously.

 

Perhaps swing by and check out Thomas Colvins work . The sailing Tanker class.

http://www.thomasecolvin.com/v_bottom_freighters.htm

 

thats a great way to look at it. Im sure with ingenuity it could be made to work. Modern sails and sailhandling gear are tremendously robust. I regularly get 25,000 miles of hard use out of a sail. The fabric in the sails will still be good...the stitching and handwork wears out. Keep at your dream...build a great boat.

 

Hmm....seems I may have upset someone ! Unintentionally.

The only design I was commenting on was the Hartog one - as that was the only one for which displacement was given. I was not referring to hold VOLUME as the issue - but the WEIGHT carrying capacity of the hull. Her hold may have been able to accommodate 40t of fish, but I don't think I would like to be on her at the time (with her 54t nominal displacement hull).

So no need to prove that your hold and Hartog's hold are spacious enough to carry 40 tonnes of fish with various stowage factors. That was not my point. My point was simply WEIGHT carrying capacity, where 20t of bananas has the same effect as 20t of diamonds located at the same CG.

It appears that your hull at "half load" has a displacement of 75t. If I understand correctly you estimate half of the load to be about 35t so at full load the vessel would presumably displace near 100t (fishing vessels not likely to have full fish and fuel at same time). On more or less the same length that means a considerably fuller hull than Patanela (45t), Hartog's 56t design or indeed the 61ft (50t) MFV whose data I posted above.

Of course we already see this in the 20'8" beam compared to 19ft on Hartog and 17'10" on the 61ft 1940s motor fishing boat (and probably even less - 15/16 ft - on PATANELA).

As stated in my original post, I have no intention of getting into an argument about whether or not this will give a hull that will sail well or safely. But that displacement and length mean proportions much closer to a modern motor fishing boat than to the slender sailing fishing vessels of the past of 60/65ft length - like the REAPER and SWAN whose pictures were posted in post 24 by PIERZGA above.

And this was the only reason for my posting the data I did - to give some context by means of hull dimensions and carrying capacity in TONS for some known craft. The examples I gave were specifcally chosen as real, successful harsh environment motor fishing vessels - but with a distinct sailing lineage - proven to be capable of being sailed (albeit not as well as their ancestors).

From experience many fishermen and other seafarers are pretty good judges of what deadweight (consumables and cargo) a vessel of given style and dimensions will carry safely (and not so safely). We can confidently say that a 60ft barge which can carry 40t or more deadweight is feasible. The complicating factor in this case is the desire to sail, and the not unrelated weight of ballast which has to be carried around - reducing the revenue earning deadweight capacity.

Since the variable load here appears to be so high relative to the displacement perhaps water ballast could have a role in minimising the full load displacement - making the boat more of a constant-draught machine.

 

the swan & reaper are almost unbeatable for seaworthiness & economy

 

Ya...and whats fascinating to consider is how to combine the proven worth of the old timers , into some kind of usable modern commercial fishing boat that can live a dual life off season..

 

So you catch fish during the fishing season for income, and than you refit, and have tourists pay you to take them sailing during the tourist season.

Sounds like a rough life.

I think you have to carefully analyze the viablity of each model separately, and see how much more it costs to operate since it will not be optimized for either use. There just might be enough year round income to support the lifestyle, but I doubt you would get wealthy doing it.

 

Not upset JR.....sorry to give that impression......just fussy about load condition.

Okay some personal qualifications.....I quit fishing 25 years ago and took up design/naval architecture full time. Prior to that I put in.....6 seasons abalone diving Seymour Narrows to the Alaska border, 3 seasons longlineing halibut Hecate Strait & Queen Charlotte's, one season trolling tuna offshore in the North Pacific, 3 seasons packing salmon, 3 years packing herring (winter), one year packing roe-on-kelp in the Charlottes (winter again), and a bunch of winters crabbing in Hecate Strait. Yes, I started fishing when I was 16, most years fishing in summer and working on tugs in winter.

Don't know if that makes me an experienced fisherman or not.........

We always fished snap gear, never stuck. These were the days of limited halibut openings, no IFQ's. From memory we had four openings per year, each 12 days long. We fished every bit of those days until guys were falling down on the deck.......The diving, tuna trolling, crabbing, and two halibut seasons were on sailing fishboats, schooner and sloop rigged.......my interest in the sailing fishboat subject goes back some way. One of the boats I worked on was a 55' steel Colvin designed pinky schooner. The other a 50' by 14' strip-planked wood Frank Carius designed sloop.

Back to the discussion at hand.......

Yes, we could go back to the turn of the century and find fishing boats that are narrower, deeper, and have lower freeboard. No question these boats will be more comfortable (though a lot wetter) in a sea. Wetted surface to sail area will be lower, SA/D will be higher with a smaller (volume wise) boat. But a fishboat is an economic proposition, the voyages contemplated are long range and capacity must be there. I think the sails come into their own when searching for fish (no income) and when running to and from the grounds....trying to tack to weather under sail alone will not happen. When the boat is heavily loaded....we're going to town and hang the expense.....

If we look at recent build fishing vessels in the 60-65' length range, typical beam is 22', fuel 35,000 litres, hold capacity up to 90 cubic metres, and giant ballast water tanks under the hold and in the stern quarters (above lightship WL). I believe a sail assisted troller/longliner will have to be of somewhat smaller volume than those boats.

Wish I could publish my 1985 student design project....a 45' full shelter deck longliner with sail assist......probably best not too......

 

A version with house and engine room aft, if pushed I would turn the engine around and add little fillets at keel/hull joint so that it lined up horizontal.

 

You mentioned the Skookum 53, here is a Skookum 47 as a fishing boat, and that same hull as a motor sailer. Pictures taken in Seward and Juneau respectively.

Note the huge difference in freeboard. The fishing boat is far more heavily loaded. My concern would be if you convert a sailing hull to a fishing vessel, it may not be designed to handle the large changes in freeboard that result from the loading and unloading of fish.

 

anyway what colour do you want it, lolhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EF3koO6ncA

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EF3koO6ncA