gaff cutter

this is the body plan for this gaff cutter

 

because its so deep it does not need an external ballast keel, it can all be internal, which will keep the cost down,
there is little point in competing with the boats that fit a 10 bunk apartment into 12 meters, instead it may be better to aim for the wine & roses daysailers, with a big cockpit, galley, w.c, shower, to sleep 6, bla bla,
it should be possible to build a beautiful affordable boat

 

quote


To 'responsibly market' any vessel these days requires professional calculations demonstrating the validity of the design ,


this is what i asked for

 

I am a naval architect for forty year, still doing all by hand.
So I really can talk about. I use ink on Mylar, mechanical integrator (if you remember what it is) planimeter, and it is not that slow, compere to my friends who use all computer design.
Unfortunately the validity of a design is very vague: some production boat should not been on the water. I wounder how the body-body system work on that field.
The regulatory body don't know nothing about classic construction, they even don't know the difference between two species of wood. Peter will have to follow the Lloyd,s of 66.
The curve of stability is a normal requirement since a long time ago, it is part of a normal design.
You try to make it so "exclusive". Do you know who is Peter?
Try to know who he is, don't let you fool by a sketch.
Daniel
PS. I built boat too so I know that the comparison is irrelevant.

 

you are most encouraging Daniel, this is my 1979 copy which I use for my yacht scantlings, for workboats I use S.F.I.A,rules,
I am British Government qualified 1990, Sea Fish Industry Authority to build new yachts, replicas, workboats & fishing boats to 60 tons

 

If our friend Peter would have posted a little more information regarding his industry experience in the first place (instead of just a cocktail napkin sketch) then perhaps we could've skipped the pissing contest at got straight to answering his question. He should at least have an idea of the design work that has gone into some of the boats he's worked on.

Which my response still remains: consult a professional engineer. Dykestra's lines plan might have been off for some reason, but he'd certainly know how to calculate structural scantlings, rig size, intact/damage stability, etc.

Daniel: your preference for ink, mylar and planimeters (no, I've never used one in my career, nor a slide rule) is fair enough - but that doesn't make it recommended practice for a novice, any more than using only hand tools (adze, anyone?) in place of power tools during construction would.

I'd agree that regulatory bodies know very little about wooden construction (especially the plank-on-frame varieties) and that's probably one reason why you don't see any authentic classic new-builds in class. Then of course, they don't employ anyone who knows about these things as there aren't any vessels to keep them busy... catch 22.

I'd also agree that real documentation is only required for commercial certification, maybe the reason for your production boats that should not be on the water. All of which is totally OT.

 

dykestra is brilliant, so it was a puzzle why he got it wrong,

i have posted on this forum before

quote
your hammer & chisel

your arrogance is unbelievable, that you assume the worst from a stranger

 

Please read the forum and the thread before posting. You make a fool of yourself.
Yes you have an arrogant attitude and very little knowledge, you just show it in your posts.
Daniel

 

Anything you sell in Europe has to be CE certified. To certify your boat, you can use one of the several methods that are provided or certify that your method is equivalent. With that you will classify the design as A, B, C or D. It is really common knowledge here, which is where you work. My previous post comment was based on your question about how to provide scantlings, etc. That is what designing is about. If you can't calculate them, there are many people that can do it for you. And Peter, invest on a copy of current regulations. That book you are showing belongs in a museum.

 

This book is not about the regulation "per se" it is about the scantling for carvel and double plank yacht construction. It is probably the best book in this area. It was at a time used to be classified by Lloyd's, which don't do it anymore, replaced by the CE mentioned by Gonzo.
The Lloyd's scantling still in vigor, since no other book on scantling for classic carvel construction, beside by Gerr and Mclaughin, has be written.
In case of large double sawn frame wooden vessel the Italian Rina of 68 can be used as the Lloyd's as long as the material is consistent with the rules.
Yes it his museum material , but a very alive museum, allowing us to continue to built classic boats.
Not for classification was the Nevin rules, very attractive, and the Herreshoff, less attractive due to endless complication for a result close to Nevin. But to be honest, the Nevin was written latter than the Herreshof.
I will add that Dixon Kemp analyze of the Lloyd's rules is absolutly captivating.
As long as you use tree in a rigorous manner for a classic planks on frames, and good fastening material, the three hundred years of expertise of Lloyd's can't and will be never beaten. IMHO.
Daniel

 

There is Veritas and whatever the German rules are called for wooden scantlings too. There are some other books with scantling references. "Working Boats of Britain" is one of them. ABS will give you scantlings for wooden builds and so do several different Navies' specifications. However, unlike the USA, boats have classfications for sea conditions. It is up to the designer to use a method to determine that. The Law leaves it up to the designer to decide which method to use.

 

Lloyds they are named Gonzo. German Lloyd of course. Better known as GL*. Veritas is French.

*As far as I know they still do class for wooden boats.

 

gonzo,i see you show me your true colours, as far as i know working boats of britain is not used by classification societies for scantlings,
i have been aware of bureaux veritas, a b s , germanischer lloyd & rina for many years, i discussed the rules for abs with the surveyor who oversaw Taramber,
of these i have italian rina 1996, which is based on lloyds

 

Speaking without better knowledge.. Why you don't read first the http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31994L0025:EN:HTML
"(e) original, and individual replicas of, historical craft designed before 1950, built predominantly with the original materials and labelled as such by the manufacturer;"
This part doesn't restrict the boat only to be an accurate design of a historical one. Depending on each individual case it can also be a replica of a certain type of boat (ie a fishing smack of XX) and so in this regard it can be redesingned.. Depending of the individual country (EU members of course) there's a lot of variety how and how easy such thing can happen..
BR Teddy

 

thanks